- From: Rik Cabanier <cabanier@gmail.com>
- Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2014 09:30:02 -0800
- To: Steve Faulkner <faulkner.steve@gmail.com>
- Cc: Richard Schwerdtfeger <schwer@us.ibm.com>, Dominic Mazzoni <dmazzoni@google.com>, Jay Munro <jaymunro@microsoft.com>, Mark Sadecki <mark@w3.org>, "public-canvas-api@w3.org" <public-canvas-api@w3.org>, Alexander Surkov <surkov.alexander@gmail.com>
- Message-ID: <CAGN7qDDi0bmKg1zHzrCtU9ms3hD9jzpzW5PBx07uudj2qLLkEQ@mail.gmail.com>
On Tue, Feb 18, 2014 at 3:04 AM, Steve Faulkner <faulkner.steve@gmail.com>wrote:
> note: the issue of canvas sub dom restrictions is not new, this was
> discussed back in mid 2012 and resulted in proposed changes the the canvas
> 2d context spec to remove the restriction [1]
>
> an example of where the ability to use ARIA role, states and properties on
> divs and spans etc is this canvas rich UI library http://www.zebkit.com/
>
> [1]
> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/index.php?title=User:Eoconnor/ISSUE-201&oldid=13386#Details
>
You're correct! I forgot that the HTML WG had a change proposal on this.
The WG decided to remove the limitation [1] and I integrated this on Sep
22, 2012 [2]
So, at least for the w3c version of the spec, this has been fixed.
1: http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/User:Eoconnor/ISSUE-201#Details
2:
https://github.com/w3c/html/commit/450357fe6734bdd23efc9a9367b50438bafa3763
> On 17 February 2014 22:56, Richard Schwerdtfeger <schwer@us.ibm.com>wrote:
>
>> response between <rss> and </rss>
>>
>>
>> Rich Schwerdtfeger
>>
>> [image: Inactive hide details for Rik Cabanier ---02/17/2014 01:12:43
>> PM---On Mon, Feb 17, 2014 at 10:49 AM, Richard Schwerdtfeger <sch]Rik
>> Cabanier ---02/17/2014 01:12:43 PM---On Mon, Feb 17, 2014 at 10:49 AM,
>> Richard Schwerdtfeger <schwer@us.ibm.com>wrote:
>>
>>
>> From: Rik Cabanier <cabanier@gmail.com>
>> To: Richard Schwerdtfeger/Austin/IBM@IBMUS
>> Cc: Dominic Mazzoni <dmazzoni@google.com>, Jay Munro <
>> jaymunro@microsoft.com>, Mark Sadecki <mark@w3.org>, "
>> public-canvas-api@w3.org" <public-canvas-api@w3.org>, Alexander Surkov <
>> surkov.alexander@gmail.com>
>> Date: 02/17/2014 01:12 PM
>>
>> Subject: Re: hit regions Firefox support update
>> ------------------------------
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Feb 17, 2014 at 10:49 AM, Richard Schwerdtfeger <
>> *schwer@us.ibm.com* <schwer@us.ibm.com>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Rik,
>>
>> Sure I can elaborate.
>>
>> When I author ARIA markup I am going to set the role on the element
>> in fallback content along with any ARIA states and properties I will have.
>> The spec. says that I, as author, MUST us a control in fallback content
>> (which I assume is an HTML5 control) or I am going to have to put a role in
>> the API call that sets up the hit region. Why should I have to put a role
>> in the API when I normally put it on an element in fallback content.
>> Example:
>>
>> <div role="checkbox" aria-checked="true">
>>
>> vs. the spec. telling me I have to do:
>>
>> <div aria-checked="true"> and supplying the role through the API.
>> This makes no sense.
>>
>>
>> No, you don't have to do this. From the spec:
>>
>> if any of the following conditions are met, throw a NotSupportedError
>> exception and abort these steps.
>> ...
>> The arguments object's control and role members are both non-null.
>>
>> You are not allowed to specify a control and a role at the same time. The
>> role has to come from the control.
>>
>> You do have to provide a HTML control:
>>
>> <rss> What does it mean to apply a role but no corresponding element?
>> </rss>
>>
>>
>> if any of the following conditions are met, throw a NotSupportedError
>> exception and abort these steps.
>> ...
>> The arguments object's control member is not null but is neither
>> an a element that represents a hyperlink, a button element, an input
>> element whosetype attribute is in one of the Checkbox or Radio Button
>> states, nor an input element that is a button.
>>
>>
>> Maybe that can be relaxed? (Why not text input for instance?)
>>
>> <rss> I think this needs to be relaxed a fair bit. Most web authors use
>> <div>s and <span>s in stead of standard input controls. Making it
>> accessible would require an ARIA role on the content as well as ARIA
>> attributes </rss>
>>
>>
>> We also may have a situation like the following:
>>
>> <table role="grid" onclick="foo()">
>> <TR><TD>cell 1</td></tr>
>> </table>
>>
>> The hit test region could be for cell 1 and then bubble up to the
>> grid.
>>
>>
>> That is allowed. The event is routed to cell 1 and will then bubble
>> <rss> My point being the TD is not a standard input control. So, if it is
>> not an input control then the spec. wants you to supply a role but authors
>> do more than supply roles. Let's talk about this on the call. Perhaps Ian
>> will participate on the call today. </rss>
>>
>>
>>
>> [image: Inactive hide details for Rik Cabanier ---02/17/2014 12:35:13
>> PM---On Mon, Feb 17, 2014 at 9:16 AM, Richard Schwerdtfeger <schw]Rik
>> Cabanier ---02/17/2014 12:35:13 PM---On Mon, Feb 17, 2014 at 9:16 AM,
>> Richard Schwerdtfeger <*schwer@us.ibm.com* <schwer@us.ibm.com>>wrote:
>> > Rik,
>>
>>
>>
>> From: Rik Cabanier <*cabanier@gmail.com* <cabanier@gmail.com>>
>> To: Richard Schwerdtfeger/Austin/IBM@IBMUS
>> Cc: Dominic Mazzoni <*dmazzoni@google.com* <dmazzoni@google.com>>,
>> Jay Munro <*jaymunro@microsoft.com* <jaymunro@microsoft.com>>, Mark
>> Sadecki <*mark@w3.org* <mark@w3.org>>, "*public-canvas-api@w3.org*<public-canvas-api@w3.org>"
>> <*public-canvas-api@w3.org* <public-canvas-api@w3.org>>, Alexander
>> Surkov <*surkov.alexander@gmail.com* <surkov.alexander@gmail.com>>
>> Date: 02/17/2014 12:35 PM
>>
>> Subject: Re: hit regions Firefox support update
>> ------------------------------
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Feb 17, 2014 at 9:16 AM, Richard Schwerdtfeger <
>> *schwer@us.ibm.com* <schwer@us.ibm.com>> wrote:
>> Rik,
>>
>> That design is fundamentally broken for these reasons:
>>
>> If you were OK with the focus ring API, why are you not OK with hit
>> regions? It seems hit regions can do everything that focus rings could do
>> (except of course draw the focus boundary which is why we still have that
>> API)
>> 1. It is frankly stupid that the fallback element needs to be an
>> HTML5 control and not having their be a role in fallback content because
>> authors are going to have to add states and properties.
>>
>> Is the issue that there's no requirement for a role?
>> Can you elaborate?
>>
>> 2. Why would we make the author have to implement half the ARIA
>> work in the Canvas API and the other half in the fallback content?
>>
>> Is this because you need to tag a group of elements with a role and
>> you can't assign a control to it?
>> If so, that is indeed a bit strange, but I don't really see a way
>> around it. Hit regions ignore the structure of the canvas shadow DOM so you
>> have to recreate it.
>>
>> 3. Events Bubble and a container may handle the event.
>>
>> In short making these restrictive requirements makes absolutely no
>> technical sense whatsoever. It makes things harder on the developer.
>>
>> What would you like to see?
>>
>>
>> [image: Inactive hide details for Rik Cabanier ---02/17/2014
>> 10:00:08 AM---On Mon, Feb 17, 2014 at 6:31 AM, Richard Schwerdtfeger <schw]Rik
>> Cabanier ---02/17/2014 10:00:08 AM---On Mon, Feb 17, 2014 at 6:31 AM,
>> Richard Schwerdtfeger <*schwer@us.ibm.com* <schwer@us.ibm.com>>wrote:
>> > Rik,
>>
>>
>>
>> From: Rik Cabanier <*cabanier@gmail.com* <cabanier@gmail.com>>
>> To: Richard Schwerdtfeger/Austin/IBM@IBMUS
>> Cc: Dominic Mazzoni <*dmazzoni@google.com* <dmazzoni@google.com>>,
>> Jay Munro <*jaymunro@microsoft.com* <jaymunro@microsoft.com>>,
>> Mark Sadecki <*mark@w3.org* <mark@w3.org>>, "
>> *public-canvas-api@w3.org* <public-canvas-api@w3.org>" <
>> *public-canvas-api@w3.org* <public-canvas-api@w3.org>>, Alexander
>> Surkov <*surkov.alexander@gmail.com* <surkov.alexander@gmail.com>>
>> Date: 02/17/2014 10:00 AM
>>
>> Subject: Re: hit regions Firefox support update
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Feb 17, 2014 at 6:31 AM, Richard Schwerdtfeger <
>> *schwer@us.ibm.com* <schwer@us.ibm.com>> wrote:
>> Rik,
>>
>> Inherit, at this time, must mean that the role passed to
>> correspond with the fallback element must be available as an element
>> attribute on that element otherwise an accessibility test tool will not
>> pick it up.
>>
>> What is the "role passed to correspond with the fallback element"?
>> You either have a control or you pass a role. It's not allowed to
>> do both
>>
>> Another issue is that if there were a role on the fallback
>> element we cannot simply replace it as the ATs will not pick up role
>> changes. You would actually have to delete the node and create a new one in
>> its place having a new role.
>>
>> Rich
>>
>>
>> Rich Schwerdtfeger
>>
>> [image: Inactive hide details for Rik Cabanier ---02/16/2014
>> 12:08:18 PM---On Sun, Feb 16, 2014 at 8:50 AM, Richard Schwerdtfeger <schw]Rik
>> Cabanier ---02/16/2014 12:08:18 PM---On Sun, Feb 16, 2014 at 8:50 AM,
>> Richard Schwerdtfeger <*schwer@us.ibm.com* <schwer@us.ibm.com>>wrote:
>> > Congrats to Mozil
>>
>> From: Rik Cabanier <*cabanier@gmail.com* <cabanier@gmail.com>>
>> To: Richard Schwerdtfeger/Austin/IBM@IBMUS
>> Cc: Dominic Mazzoni <*dmazzoni@google.com* <dmazzoni@google.com>>,
>> Alexander Surkov <*surkov.alexander@gmail.com*<surkov.alexander@gmail.com>>,
>> "*public-canvas-api@w3.org* <public-canvas-api@w3.org>" <
>> *public-canvas-api@w3.org* <public-canvas-api@w3.org>>, Mark
>> Sadecki <*mark@w3.org* <mark@w3.org>>, Jay Munro <
>> *jaymunro@microsoft.com* <jaymunro@microsoft.com>>
>> Date: 02/16/2014 12:08 PM
>>
>>
>> Subject: Re: hit regions Firefox support update
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Feb 16, 2014 at 8:50 AM, Richard Schwerdtfeger <
>> *schwer@us.ibm.com* <schwer@us.ibm.com>> wrote:
>> Congrats to Mozilla! We will still need the
>> drawFocusIfNeeded though per Rik's comment below.
>>
>> One concern I have about the current hit region spec. is
>> that it only allows the author to provide a role that does not show up in
>> the DOM so until we get some changes in that we want for ARIA 1.1 (to query
>> the role) the accessibility test tools won't pick up the role.
>> Additionally, a role is not enough. We need states and properties. We would
>> be better to simply apply ARIA attributes to the DOM at this time.
>>
>> Hi Rich,
>>
>> the minimal implementation always requires that you provide a
>> control (= an element in the fallback content).
>> The region is supposed to inherit the ARIA role of that
>> element. Would that not be sufficient?
>>
>>
>> [image: Inactive hide details for Dominic Mazzoni
>> ---02/14/2014 01:36:50 PM---I'm interested in implementing hit regions in
>> Chrome, but]Dominic Mazzoni ---02/14/2014 01:36:50 PM---I'm
>> interested in implementing hit regions in Chrome, but I haven't discussed
>> it with all of the sta
>>
>> From: Dominic Mazzoni <*dmazzoni@google.com*<dmazzoni@google.com>
>> >
>> To: Jay Munro <*jaymunro@microsoft.com*<jaymunro@microsoft.com>
>> >
>> Cc: Rik Cabanier <*cabanier@gmail.com* <cabanier@gmail.com>>,
>> Alexander Surkov <*surkov.alexander@gmail.com*<surkov.alexander@gmail.com>>,
>> "*public-canvas-api@w3.org* <public-canvas-api@w3.org>" <
>> *public-canvas-api@w3.org* <public-canvas-api@w3.org>>, Mark
>> Sadecki <*mark@w3.org* <mark@w3.org>>
>> Date: 02/14/2014 01:36 PM
>>
>>
>> Subject: Re: hit regions Firefox support update
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> I'm interested in implementing hit regions in Chrome, but I
>> haven't discussed it with all of the stakeholders at Google yet. I'm really
>> excited to see that Mozilla has already implemented it and that should
>> definitely give us some momentum.
>>
>> On Fri, Feb 14, 2014 at 11:25 AM, Jay Munro <
>> *jaymunro@microsoft.com* <jaymunro@microsoft.com>> wrote:
>> Lets see what folks say Monday on hit regions, whether we
>> put them in CR or not. Mark, want to add it to the agenda?
>>
>>
>> Sent from my Windows Phone
>> ------------------------------
>> *From: *Rik Cabanier
>> * Sent: *2/14/2014 11:20 AM
>>
>> * To: *Jay Munro
>> * Cc: *Alexander Surkov; *public-canvas-api@w3.org*<public-canvas-api@w3.org>;
>> Mark Sadecki
>> * Subject: *Re: hit regions Firefox support update
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Feb 14, 2014 at 10:41 AM, Jay Munro <
>> *jaymunro@microsoft.com* <jaymunro@microsoft.com>> wrote:
>> We've already removed all the at risk features with
>> the exception of drawFocusIfNeeded , which was agreed
>> upon in the A11y subgroup.
>>
>>
>> We'll have to bring it back if we want a11y to work in
>> canvas :-(
>>
>> *From:* Rik Cabanier [mailto:*cabanier@gmail.com*<cabanier@gmail.com>]
>>
>> * Sent:* Friday, February 14, 2014 10:15 AM
>> * To:* Jay Munro
>> * Cc:* Alexander Surkov; *public-canvas-api@w3.org*<public-canvas-api@w3.org>;
>> Mark Sadecki
>>
>>
>> * Subject:* Re: hit regions Firefox support update
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Feb 14, 2014 at 9:40 AM, Jay Munro <
>> *jaymunro@microsoft.com* <jaymunro@microsoft.com>>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Do we have a 2nd implementation of hitRegions?
>>
>>
>>
>> We do not.
>>
>> They are listed as at-risk so we can still go to CR
>> with them.
>>
>>
>>
>> We should probably update the at-risk list to state
>> that *part* or all of hit regions might be removed.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> * From:* Rik Cabanier [mailto:*cabanier@gmail.com* <cabanier@gmail.com>]
>> * Sent:* Friday, February 14, 2014 9:33 AM
>> * To:* Alexander Surkov
>> * Cc:* *public-canvas-api@w3.org* <public-canvas-api@w3.org>; Mark
>> Sadecki
>> * Subject:* Re: hit regions Firefox support update
>>
>>
>>
>> I just requested that the patches are checked into
>> firefox.
>>
>> If all goes well, this means that the upcoming
>> nightly build will have basic support for hit regions.
>>
>>
>>
>> If people had earlier tests for drawFocusIfNeeded,
>> they can simply update them as follows.
>>
>> old code:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ctx.drawFocusIfNeeded(element);
>>
>> new code:
>> ctx.drawFocusIfNeeded(element);
>> ctx.addHitRegion({control: element};
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Alex, how can we turns hit regions and focus rings
>> on by default?
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 13, 2014 at 10:40 AM, Alexander Surkov <
>> *surkov.alexander@gmail.com*<surkov.alexander@gmail.com>>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi. Here's an update of hit region implementation
>> in Firefox in case if you're curious .
>>
>> This week we've got a prototype of hit regions
>> which can be used to change accessible boundaries. The work hasn't been
>> landed into Firefox Nightly yet but there's a try build [2].
>>
>> There's no plans to continue the work on
>> drawFocusIfNeeded to fit it for accessible boundaries setting since hit
>> regions looks promising. It's worth to notice though that drawFocusIfNeeded
>> (used to draw the focus) is part of Firefox and there's no actions to undo
>> this.
>>
>>
>>
>> You can follow hit regions work by watching Mozilla
>> bug [1].
>>
>> Thanks.
>> Alexander.
>>
>>
>> [1]
>> *https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=966591*<https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=966591>
>> [2]
>> *https://tbpl.mozilla.org/?tree=Try&rev=a0775f0bf042*<https://tbpl.mozilla.org/?tree=Try&rev=a0775f0bf042>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
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