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Re: Apparent WebDriver meeting?

From: David Burns <david.burns@theautomatedtester.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2020 13:27:55 +0100
Message-ID: <CAPmg_cvyZfN7dimh015-yaRUm05iyO4D87PQgFkS-JNNHw+Etw@mail.gmail.com>
To: Mathias Bynens <mths@google.com>
Cc: Philip J├Ągenstedt <foolip@google.com>, public-browser-tools-testing@w3.org
I will go ahead and set up a meeting so that it can be inclusive of anyone
who is interested in the project.

The work should definitely be done within the WG since it's already in the
WG github repo and issues except, unintentionally?, meetings did not
include the group.
I am going to assume no malice but having a meeting with "interested
parties" but ignoring the people who have historically been driving this
from the meeting does come across poorly. We need to make sure that this
does not happen again in the future.

Could we also get the minutes shared with this group as well, I haven't
seen those shared yet.

David





On Tue, Apr 21, 2020 at 1:00 PM Mathias Bynens <mths@google.com> wrote:

> Thanks for that great summary, Philip.There's definitely no intention of
> keeping this meeting "hidden" or secret. Anyone who's interested in talking
> about BiDi is welcome to join.
>
> As for logistics, I suggest we simply invite
> public-browser-tools-testing@w3.org to any future meetings, and start
> taking public minutes. WDYT?
>
> On Tue, Apr 21, 2020 at 1:30 PM Philip J├Ągenstedt <foolip@google.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi David,
>>
>> A bunch of people indeed meet yesterday to discuss the explainer
>> <https://github.com/w3c/webdriver/blob/master/webdriver-bidi/webdriver.md> and
>> some of the BiDi issues <https://github.com/w3c/webdriver/labels/BiDi>
>> filed by James. This grew organically out of a first Google/Microsoft
>> meeting to gauge the level of interest about a month ago. Since it's such
>> early days for this workstream, I don't think any of us have considered
>> whether to use existing WG meetings, public minutes, etc., we just met to
>> see what would come of it.
>>
>> Trying to summarize some of the discussion:
>>
>>    - Specify how to enable an event stream
>>    <https://github.com/w3c/webdriver/issues/1501> - The basic problem is
>>    the full stream of events might be too much, so you'd need some way to
>>    enable a subset of all possible events. The next problem is that there are
>>    some events from targets you don't know if/when they'll appear, like
>>    iframes and service workers, that you want to subscribe to if they appear.
>>    We thought that some per-session mechanism to enable events per domain and
>>    possibly per target type might work.
>>    - Update goals in the explainer document
>>    <https://github.com/w3c/webdriver/issues/1499> - I think we ended up
>>    concurring with what James wrote on devtools protocols. While being able to
>>    use BiDi together with devtools protocols would probably help a transition,
>>    it's no requirement that BiDi is layered on top of a devtools protocol, and
>>    for example how to get from identifiers in one protocol to the other, when
>>    both are supported, would perhaps be as extra properties or "convert this
>>    to that" commands in one of the protocols.
>>    - Specify a low-level transport format
>>    <https://github.com/w3c/webdriver/issues/1498> - It sounds like
>>    JSON-RPC isn't exactly what we need, but there isn't anything else that is.
>>    Basing something on JSON-RPC but writing a stringent test suite for it
>>    sounded reasonable. It's not clear if transmitting binary as base64 will be
>>    enough of a problem to avoid JSON-RPC, I got the sense that most
>>    implementers don't think so.
>>
>> @Mathias Bynens <mths@google.com> or others on this list might be able
>> to add more detail, and in any case it'd be a good idea to get this into
>> the issues rather than notes.
>>
>> I've not seen any suggestion to spin up a CG for this, but enough people
>> found it useful enough to repeat it on a monthly basis. I think it would
>> make sense to have the BiDi meeting be open to any WG members and to take
>> minutes in public. What are the logistics for doing that?
>>
>> Philip
>>
>> On Tue, Apr 21, 2020 at 10:56 AM David Burns <
>> david.burns@theautomatedtester.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi All,
>>>
>>> I am just sharing this as there appears to be hidden meetings about the
>>> WebDriver BiDi work that does not include anyone from the Selenium group,
>>> the editors of the webdriver specification and probably others (who knows
>>> as it was a closed meeting).
>>>
>>> Has there been some agreement to move this out to a community group
>>> instead of using the working group?
>>>
>>> David
>>>
>>
Received on Tuesday, 21 April 2020 12:28:21 UTC

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