W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-bpwg@w3.org > August 2009

[minutes] MWBP Teleconference 2009-08-11

From: Francois Daoust <fd@w3.org>
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 17:03:53 +0200
Message-ID: <4A818859.7090001@w3.org>
To: Mobile Web Best Practices Working Group WG <public-bpwg@w3.org>
Hi all,

The minutes of today's call are available at:
  http://www.w3.org/2009/08/11-bpwg-minutes.html

... and copied as text below.


Resolutions taken during the call:
- re-publish the mobileOK Scheme Note with the correct 
"application/powder+xml" media type for POWDER.
- on CT: Use a separate ICS document that contains all MUST-level and 
SHOULD-level statements

Cleanup meeting otherwise: many actions were reviewed and closed.

Group action: review and discuss Adam's latest text proposal on handling 
device variation and CSS MQ
  http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-bpwg/2009Aug/0005.html
  (warning on media types still to be added)

Thanks,
Francois.


-----
11 Aug 2009

    [2]Agenda

       [2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-bpwg/2009Aug/0004.html

    See also: [3]IRC log

       [3] http://www.w3.org/2009/08/11-bpwg-irc

Attendees

    Present
           tomhume, francois, brucel, adam, kai, EdC, SeanP

    Regrets
           jo, dka, alanc, yeliz, abel, miguel, manrique, nacho

    Chair
           francois

    Scribe
           EdC

Contents

      * [4]Topics
          1. [5]mobileOK Scheme: incorrect media type
          2. [6]CT Guidelines - X-Device-* registration
          3. [7]CT Guidelines - Tests on same origin policy
          4. [8]CT Guidelines - mailing-list for conformance statements
          5. [9]CT Guidelines - Implementation Conformance Statement
          6. [10]CT Guidelines - issues and actions
          7. [11]Addendum to BP (BP1.5) - Status update
          8. [12]MWABP - Status update
          9. [13]MWABP - CSS Media Queries
         10. [14]MWABP - ISSUE-293 on pixel density
         11. [15]MWABP - Other actions
         12. [16]Actions and issues
      * [17]Summary of Action Items
      _________________________________________________________

mobileOK Scheme: incorrect media type

    MobileOK scheme: formal correction to media type in the document
    necessary.

    The correction could be published in a list of errata but would best
    not be hidden. Suggestion: re-publish the note with the correction.

    <francois> PROPOSED RESOLUTION: re-publish the mobileOK Scheme Note
    with the correct "application/powder+xml" media type for POWDER.

    Deemed important because of impact on the validator.

    +1

    <francois> +1

    RESOLUTION: re-publish the mobileOK Scheme Note with the correct
    "application/powder+xml" media type for POWDER.

CT Guidelines - X-Device-* registration

    <francois> ACTION-928?

    <trackbot> ACTION-928 -- Francois Daoust to progress registration of
    the X- headers irrespective his personal distate for the subject --
    due 2009-04-02 -- OPEN

    <trackbot>
    [18]http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/928

      [18] http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/928

    Registration of X-Device-* header fields: a few replied in the IETF
    mailing list. Suggestion: register the header fields without X-
    prefix.

    Francois lets one more week pass on the IETF mailing list before
    registration takes place.

    <francois> [19]latest discussion on the IETF mailing-list

      [19] 
http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/ietf-message-headers/current/msg00101.html

CT Guidelines - Tests on same origin policy

    <francois> ACTION-969?

    <trackbot> ACTION-969 -- Charles McCathieNevile to forward tests for
    Xss and cookie handling to group -- due 2009-06-23 -- OPEN

    <trackbot>
    [20]http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/969

      [20] http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/969

    Tests have not been reviewed so far. Somebody should be given a task
    to do this.

    Is the question whether the tests cover what we want to check ?

    Main problem (Francois, Eduardo): seem ok, but do they cover the
    issues of same-origin policy? Security specialists think this is not
    so simple an aspect to test at run-time.

    Suggestion: deeper review of the test suite.

    <francois> ACTION: daoust to review tests provided by Charles on
    same origin policy [recorded in
    [21]http://www.w3.org/2009/08/11-bpwg-minutes.html#action01]

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-1001 - Review tests provided by Charles on
    same origin policy [on François Daoust - due 2009-08-18].

CT Guidelines - mailing-list for conformance statements

    <francois> ACTION-991?

    <trackbot> ACTION-991 -- François Daoust to check legality of
    mailing list name and maek the new list -- due 2009-07-07 --
    PENDINGREVIEW

    <trackbot>
    [22]http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/991

      [22] http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/991

    <francois> [23]mailing-list announcement

      [23] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-bpwg/2009Jul/0018.html

    <francois> public-content-transformation-conformance@w3.org

    Mailing list to publish and comment on ICS for transformation
    proxies.

    <francois> close ACTION-991

    <trackbot> ACTION-991 Check legality of mailing list name and maek
    the new list closed

CT Guidelines - Implementation Conformance Statement

    <francois> [24]updated ICS announcement

      [24] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-bpwg/2009Jun/0137.html

    ICS have not been formally reviewed yet. An update has been prepared
    by Francois.

    Two variants: one version with all statements, and one excluding the
    MUST/MUST NOT statements. First impressions are that the former
    version is preferable. Suggestion: decide to use the complete ICS
    variant.

    <francois> [25]complete version

      [25] 
http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/TaskForces/CT/editors-drafts/Guidelines/ics-090622-must

    <francois> [26]should-only version

      [26] 
http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/TaskForces/CT/editors-drafts/Guidelines/ics-090622

    EdC: I am in favour of the complete version.

    <francois> PROPOSED RESOLUTION: Use a complete ICS that contains
    both MUST/MUST NOT and SHOULD/SHOULD NOT statements

    And I favour keeping it as a separate document from the CTG itself !

    <SeanP> I like the full version.

    <tomhume> +1

    <SeanP> Agree that it should be a separate document.

    <francois> +1

    Initial idea of excluding MUST was that they have to be respected
    anyway (so are somewhat redundant when assessing the conformance of
    an implementation).

    +1

    <SeanP> +1

    <francois> EdC: keep that as a separate document or integrate it
    with main document?

    <francois> PROPOSED RESOLUTION: Use a separate ICS document that
    contains all MUST-level and SHOULD-level statements

    <francois> +1

    +1

    <SeanP> +1

    RESOLUTION: Use a separate ICS document that contains all MUST-level
    and SHOULD-level statements

    Regarding content: satisfactory so far. No further formatting
    needed.

    <SeanP> Looks good to me.

    <francois> close ACTION-892

    <trackbot> ACTION-892 Prepare an ICS with MUST/MUST NOT (to view if
    that's a good idea), try to add a "depends on" column, explain "Not
    applicable" or remove it. closed

CT Guidelines - issues and actions

    <francois> [27]jo's email

      [27] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-bpwg/2009Jun/0102.html

    <francois> [28]latest CT draft

      [28] 
http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/TaskForces/CT/editors-drafts/Guidelines/090622

    <francois> ACTION-971?

    <trackbot> ACTION-971 -- Jo Rabin to adopt text proposed by EdC and
    Amended by Jo for the Abstract -- due 2009-06-22 -- PENDINGREVIEW

    <trackbot>
    [29]http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/971

      [29] http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/971

    Many actions pending review.

    <francois> close ACTION-971

    <trackbot> ACTION-971 Adopt text proposed by EdC and Amended by Jo
    for the Abstract closed

    <francois> ACTION-972?

    <trackbot> ACTION-972 -- Jo Rabin to add NOT RECOMMENDED to the
    rfc2119 section of the document -- due 2009-06-22 -- PENDINGREVIEW

    <trackbot>
    [30]http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/972

      [30] http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/972

    <francois> close ACTION-972

    <trackbot> ACTION-972 add NOT RECOMMENDED to the rfc2119 section of
    the document closed

    <francois> ACTION-973?

    <trackbot> ACTION-973 -- Jo Rabin to add Accept-Language ot the
    other than list in 4.1.5 -- due 2009-06-23 -- PENDINGREVIEW

    <trackbot>
    [31]http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/973

      [31] http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/973

    <francois> close ACTION-973

    <trackbot> ACTION-973 Add Accept-Language ot the other than list in
    4.1.5 closed

    <francois> ACTION-974?

    <trackbot> ACTION-974 -- Jo Rabin to enact the resolution of 28th
    April ref x-device cf
    [32]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-bpwg/2009Jun/0044.htm
    l -- due 2009-06-23 -- PENDINGREVIEW

      [32] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-bpwg/2009Jun/0044.html

    <trackbot>
    [33]http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/974

      [33] http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/974

    <francois> close ACTION-974

    <trackbot> ACTION-974 Enact the resolution of 28th April ref
    x-device cf
    [34]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-bpwg/2009Jun/0044.htm
    l closed

      [34] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-bpwg/2009Jun/0044.html

    <francois> ACTION-975?

    <trackbot> ACTION-975 -- Jo Rabin to correct SeanP's point 2 -- due
    2009-06-23 -- PENDINGREVIEW

    <trackbot>
    [35]http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/975

      [35] http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/975

    I believe it was just to refer to RFC, and avoid inserting
    production rules for the X-Device-fields.

    <francois> [36]Sean's comments on previous email

      [36] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-bpwg/2009Jun/0050.html

    Sean to review Action 975.

    <francois> ACTION: sean to review Jo's updates in draft 1s based on
    his feedback. When done, actions 975, 976, 977, 978, 979 can be
    closed [recorded in
    [37]http://www.w3.org/2009/08/11-bpwg-minutes.html#action02]

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-1002 - Review Jo's updates in draft 1s
    based on his feedback. When done, actions 975, 976, 977, 978, 979
    can be closed [on Sean Patterson - due 2009-08-18].

    <francois> ACTION-980?

    <trackbot> ACTION-980 -- Jo Rabin to remove editorial note at 4.2.9
    ref mobileOK and add a reference to mobileOK scheme to show how it
    is done -- due 2009-06-23 -- PENDINGREVIEW

    <trackbot>
    [38]http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/980

      [38] http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/980

    <francois> close ACTION-980

    <trackbot> ACTION-980 Remove editorial note at 4.2.9 ref mobileOK
    and add a reference to mobileOK scheme to show how it is done closed

    <francois> ACTION-985?

    <trackbot> ACTION-985 -- Eduardo Casais to assess whether there is
    any relevant terminology we can quote in respect of last para of
    Section 5 - cf ACTION-933 -- due 2009-06-23 -- CLOSED

    <trackbot>
    [39]http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/985

      [39] http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/985

Addendum to BP (BP1.5) - Status update

    Any news from Kai on BP: none. Work still outstanding. Kai was
    absent (vacations) and must catch up with the status of the edition
    of the document.

    <francois> [40]Old actions

      [40] http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/products/9

    <francois> ACTION-797?

    <trackbot> ACTION-797 -- Jeffrey Sonstein to check on availability
    of data about the number of acceptable links in a focus-based
    browser -- due 2008-09-25 -- OPEN

    <trackbot>
    [41]http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/797

      [41] http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/797

    Action 797 still open, old action. Discussion has been interrupted
    for a long time.

    <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - 797

    <francois> close ACTION-797

    <trackbot> ACTION-797 Check on availability of data about the number
    of acceptable links in a focus-based browser closed

    <francois> ACTION-837?

    <trackbot> ACTION-837 -- Kai Scheppe to provide explanatory text for
    the addendum which will put the document (mobileOK Pro Tests 1) in
    the correct context and explain to the audience that it is intended
    to aid content authors in creating still better content. -- due
    2008-09-11 -- PENDINGREVIEW

    <trackbot>
    [42]http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/837

      [42] http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/837

    <francois> close ACTION-837

    <trackbot> ACTION-837 Provide explanatory text for the addendum
    which will put the document (mobileOK Pro Tests 1) in the correct
    context and explain to the audience that it is intended to aid
    content authors in creating still better content. closed

    The pending actions can be closed, they have been taken care of and
    integrated in the document.

    <francois> ACTION-847?

    <trackbot> ACTION-847 -- Kai Scheppe to change the Addendum
    according to the resolution about toning down the test character of
    the document -- due 2008-09-24 -- PENDINGREVIEW

    <trackbot>
    [43]http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/847

      [43] http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/847

    <francois> close ACTION-847

    <trackbot> ACTION-847 Change the Addendum according to the
    resolution about toning down the test character of the document
    closed

    <francois> ACTION-848?

    <trackbot> ACTION-848 -- Kai Scheppe to sprinkle in delivery context
    information (DDC and others) where appropriate -- due 2008-09-24 --
    PENDINGREVIEW

    <trackbot>
    [44]http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/848

      [44] http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/848

    <francois> close ACTION-848

    <trackbot> ACTION-848 Sprinkle in delivery context information (DDC
    and others) where appropriate closed

MWABP - Status update

    Adam has posted a couple of messages on the mailing list regarding
    MWABP.

    I.e. new text for handling recognition of device capabilities.
    Important change to be reviewed.

    Apart from other less major revisions, the pending point is a
    discussion on Canvas/SVG.

    <brucel> is there a direct link to the CSSMQ and Canvas/ SVG
    changes?

    A detailed answer to Jonathan's suggestion has been made. J's
    proposals have been included in some form or another in the
    document, so no further work should be needed there.

    Afterwards, the document could be published.

    CSS-MQ and Canvas/SVG are two separate issues.

MWABP - CSS Media Queries

    Adam thinks it is not necessary to expand the text much. Some more
    context about CSS-MQ should be provided, but the technology is
    fairly clear.

    <francois> [45]latest text for handling variations and CSS MQ

      [45] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-bpwg/2009Aug/0005.html

    EdC: hadn't we in a previous meeting decided that they should be
    some kind of warnings on CSS media types?

    adam: there's a sentence that they should not be fully relied upon.

    EdC: that's two different things. There's media queries and media
    types, and media types are sometimes suprisingly handled by mobile
    devices

    <brucel> media types as in "handheld"?

    adam: ok, understood.

    People should review the proposed text and make comments on the
    mailing list.

    <francois> ACTION-997?

    <trackbot> ACTION-997 -- Adam Connors to write first text based on
    the listserve discussion of Media Queries -- due 2009-07-21 --
    PENDINGREVIEW

    <trackbot>
    [46]http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/997

      [46] http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/997

MWABP - ISSUE-293 on pixel density

    An issue becoming more acute in the mobile environment: pixel
    density.

    <francois> [47]EdC's email on pixel density

      [47] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-bpwg/2009Aug/0000.html

    <francois> EdC: I would have difficulty to propose any kind of BP.
    It's becoming more and more acute. It's something to keep an eye.

    Existing BP are weak on this topic. BP 1 deals with absolute
    measures vs. relative, font dimensions, not really informational
    content.

    The topic is becoming important, but there are no best practices we
    can identify at this stage. The group stands by its previous
    resolution.

MWABP - Other actions

    <francois> ACTION-845?

    <trackbot> ACTION-845 -- Kai Scheppe to finalize information on
    caching concept, now live, and contribute it to the list. -- due
    2008-09-17 -- PENDINGREVIEW

    <trackbot>
    [48]http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/845

      [48] http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/845

    The question is: has the information in the BP related to caching
    been completed? The text contains now recommendations about caching;
    are they enough?

    <francois> [49]Kai's email on caching

      [49] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-bpwg/2008Sep/0052.html

    <francois> close ACTION-845

    <trackbot> ACTION-845 Finalize information on caching concept, now
    live, and contribute it to the list. closed

    According to Kai: this was supposed to be reviewed by a colleague of
    Dan (but wasn't done). Some fairly detailed caching behaviour has
    been discussed.

    <francois> ACTION-995?

    <trackbot> ACTION-995 -- Adam Connors to look through J.J.'s email
    and apply additional text as necessary to reflect the additional
    desireable goals as a note after each individual BP. -- due
    2009-07-14 -- PENDINGREVIEW

    <trackbot>
    [50]http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/995

      [50] http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/995

    We give some more time to Jonathan so that he can consider the
    detailed response of Adam to his proposals.

    <francois> ACTION-999?

    <trackbot> ACTION-999 -- Daniel Appelquist to feedback on action-845
    -- due 2009-07-21 -- OPEN

    <trackbot>
    [51]http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/999

      [51] http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/999

    <francois> close ACTION-999

    <trackbot> ACTION-999 Feedback on action-845 closed

    MWABP: almost there: CSS-MQ to be reviewed. Main issue: Canvas/SVG
    (a proposal is to be sent by Jeff). Afterwards, the document is
    ready to be published.

Actions and issues

    <francois> [52]http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/products

      [52] http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/products

    <francois> ACTION-970?

    <trackbot> ACTION-970 -- Phil Archer to ask Rigo to consider Jo's
    comments and revise mobileOK license accordingly -- due 2009-06-09
    -- PENDINGREVIEW

    <trackbot>
    [53]http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/970

      [53] http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/970

    <francois> close ACTION-970

    <trackbot> ACTION-970 ask Rigo to consider Jo's comments and revise
    mobileOK license accordingly closed

    <francois> ACTION-838?

    <trackbot> ACTION-838 -- Bryan Sullivan to summarise points to take
    back to the WebApps group -- due 2008-09-10 -- OPEN

    <trackbot>
    [54]http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/838

      [54] http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/838

    Old action still open.

    <francois> close ACTION-838

    <trackbot> ACTION-838 Summarise points to take back to the WebApps
    group closed

    <francois> ACTION-875?

    <trackbot> ACTION-875 -- Jeffrey Sonstein to scope current draft and
    see what aspects may be of interest to us. -- due 2008-10-27 --
    PENDINGREVIEW

    <trackbot>
    [55]http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/875

      [55] http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/875

    <francois> close ACTION-875

    <trackbot> ACTION-875 Scope current draft and see what aspects may
    be of interest to us. closed

    Reply to be sent, but missed the deadline.

    <francois> [56]actions pending review

      [56] http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/pendingreview

    <francois> ACTION-903?

    <trackbot> ACTION-903 -- François Daoust to setup a registration
    poll for next F2F in London -- due 2009-02-03 -- PENDINGREVIEW

    <trackbot>
    [57]http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/903

      [57] http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/903

    <francois> close ACTION-903

    <trackbot> ACTION-903 Setup a registration poll for next F2F in
    London closed

    <francois> ACTION-917?

    <trackbot> ACTION-917 -- François Daoust to extend the TPAC Noc
    Questionnaire and add a question to assess whether the meeting would
    be better attended if it was held somewhere else -- due 2009-03-24
    -- PENDINGREVIEW

    <trackbot>
    [58]http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/917

      [58] http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/917

    <francois> close ACTION-917

    <trackbot> ACTION-917 Extend the TPAC Noc Questionnaire and add a
    question to assess whether the meeting would be better attended if
    it was held somewhere else closed

    TPAC = Technical Plenary Advisory Committee (November in
    California). Decision pending: whether the group attends or not.

    <francois> ACTION-968?

    <trackbot> ACTION-968 -- Jo Rabin to add NOT RECOMMENDED to the
    rfc2119 section of the document -- due 2009-06-16 -- PENDINGREVIEW

    <trackbot>
    [59]http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/968

      [59] http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/968

    <francois> close ACTION-968

    <trackbot> ACTION-968 Add NOT RECOMMENDED to the rfc2119 section of
    the document closed

    Any other business?

    bye

    <brucel> bye all

Summary of Action Items

    [NEW] ACTION: daoust to review tests provided by Charles on same
    origin policy [recorded in
    [60]http://www.w3.org/2009/08/11-bpwg-minutes.html#action01]

    [DONE] ACTION: sean to review Jo's updates in draft 1s based on his
    feedback. When done, actions 975, 976, 977, 978, 979 can be
    [recorded in
    [61]http://www.w3.org/2009/08/11-bpwg-minutes.html#action02]

    [End of minutes]
Received on Tuesday, 11 August 2009 15:04:29 UTC

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.4.0 : Friday, 17 January 2020 19:09:01 UTC