W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-bpwg@w3.org > February 2008

Re: Update to BP2 draft

From: Sean Owen <srowen@google.com>
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 14:29:50 -0500
Message-ID: <e920a71c0802141129m168fb47ej79778bda0a475e0b@mail.gmail.com>
To: "Sullivan, Bryan" <BS3131@att.com>
Cc: BPWG-Public <public-bpwg@w3.org>

Sounds good, I imagine there is broad agreement here, just want to err
on the side of more clarity, earlier.

A couple statements pop out at me --

"apply both to browsers and non-browser web runtime environments"

Remind me what the non-browser web runtime environments are? I
apologize if I missed this by missing a call, but where is this part

"The recommendations necessarily reflect upon ... the nature of the
devices and user agents through which they are experienced. However
the main focus is upon the applications themselves."

I would think it is the only focus, or at least, that was the BP1
sentiment, and could be therefore stated more strongly here.

"statements that do not have a specific mobile aspect are not included"

That's great. We may find that some of topics listed below don't have
much of a mobile-specific aspects when thought of in the context of
advanced (i.e. nearly web-like) user agents. Maybe, maybe not.

Maybe another way to open this discussion is to list the sorts of
specific best practices we each have in mind? I bet we can all think
of several. Personally, I had envisioned this as very much along the
lines of Apple's iPhone guidelines:

Specify a, um, "ADC"-targeted stylesheet:
<link media="only screen and (max-device-width: 480px)"
href="small-device.css" type="text/css" rel="stylesheet" >

Of course, we're not here to rewrite these guidelines or focus on the
iPhone, though it is a reasonably clear and useful target. Android is
going to have quite the same profile and behavior too, as will several
more devices.

If we're not talking about a particular profile, and I know that was
sort of voted down with the ADC, then I wonder what kinds of guidance
we can write, that isn't hopelessly general or quite conditional? That
is, will we say "you should use media selectors to write a stylesheet
that separately targets some profile of device, which we can't talk
about", or will we say, "if you're targeting something like the
iPhone, do X, and if you are targeting something like Android, do Y,
and if not, consider Z"?

I think the DDC was the reason that BP 1.0 was concrete, coherent, and
useful. It anchored the document in reality quite well. I sense the
ghost of the ADC is still floating around here -- I already read it
into some of the text. I don't want to reopen that debate, I just note
that practice seems to argue that the issue is not over.

I am happy to be proven wrong and the fastest way would be to write up
some example draft BPs to see if we like where it's going.

On Thu, Feb 14, 2008 at 2:09 PM, Sullivan, Bryan <BS3131@att.com> wrote:
>  Moving this thread to the public list.
>  Sean,
>  Setting the scope and goals is the critical first task I agree. The
>  draft is consistent with the scope/goals of BP1 as you state them,
>  except for reliance upon a specific device context (basic, or advanced)
>  as the frame.
>  Here is the scope section. It is clearly focused on the mobile device
>  user experience, and specifically to how web applications (content and
>  services) are provided (thus not specifically focused on device
>  capabilities, but the implications of them on the content and services
>  that are offered).
>  ++++
>  1.4 Scope
>  These recommendations (BP2) follow in the footsteps of the Mobile Web
>  Best Practices 1.0, (BP1), for which the scope was laid out in "Scope of
>  Mobile Web Best Practices" [Scope] . In summary, BP1 refered primarily
>  to the extension of Web browsing onto mobile devices.
>  BP2 extends the focus to Web applications generally, which means an
>  application that is accessed and presented via Web technologies. Web
>  applications represent a spectrum of services and content, at the simple
>  end of which are typical Web browsing sites, presented in browsers,
>  which were the focus of BP1. The BP2 focus includes further
>  recommendations for addressing delivery context issues and for use of
>  advanced Web technologies, which apply both to browsers and non-browser
>  web runtime environments.
>  The recommendations refer to applications as experienced on mobile
>  devices. The recommendations necessarily reflect upon the processes by
>  which the applications are developed and delivered, and the nature of
>  the devices and user agents through which they are experienced. However
>  the main focus is upon the applications themselves, including content
>  that is delivered and presented through the applications.
>  As the goal of the document is to specify Best Practices for delivery to
>  mobile devices, statements that do not have a specific mobile aspect are
>  not included. In particular, many Web Content Accessibility [WCAG]
>  guidelines are general to all forms of Web access and are not repeated
>  here unless they have a specific mobile interpretation. Examples of
>  general good practice which have a specific mobile interpretation
>  include "Error Messages" and "Color".
>  ++++
>  The ADC was left off the table in the Nov 07 F2F since as I think, the
>  sense was that:
>  - it will be difficult to settle on a representative "advanced" device
>  since so many new/advanced web technologies have been developed and yet
>  it's still early in terms of their adoption on mobile devices
>  - better cost/value will result from addressing a focused set of key
>  issues (based upon BP1 and expanded for new technologies) for web
>  applications, consistent with the BP1 objectives
>  (usability/interoperability/efficiency)
Received on Thursday, 14 February 2008 19:30:08 UTC

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