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[minutes] Thursday 14 February BPWG Teleconference

From: Matt Womer <mdw@w3.org>
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 11:36:20 -0500
Message-Id: <5AC5939C-7091-4817-B171-F388193AC77C@w3.org>
To: public-bpwg@w3.org

Hi All,

The minutes from today's teleconference are available here:

And as text below.

New action items:
[NEW] ACTION: Bryan to raise specific points of discussion on Public  
List [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/02/14-bpwg-minutes.html#action04 
[NEW] ACTION: Kai to amend charter with black box part [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/02/14-bpwg-minutes.html#action02 
[NEW] ACTION: matt to post a questionnaire re June f2f by Feb.21  
[recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/02/14-bpwg-minutes.html#action01]
[NEW] ACTION: Scheppe to sort out administrative aspects of TF like a  
Web page [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/02/14-bpwg-minutes.html#action03 

RESOLUTION: Accept mobileOK Pro Charter as suggested by Kai under  
ACTION-639 modified to make clear ref black box testing

Thanks for letting me crash your party!



       [1] http://www.w3.org/

                                - DRAFT -

         Mobile Web Best Practices Working Group Teleconference
                               14 Feb 2008


       [2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-bpwg/2008Feb/0034.html

    See also: [3]IRC log

       [3] http://www.w3.org/2008/02/14-bpwg-irc


           Shahriar, Jason, +, Matt, MartinJ, miguel,
           Ed_Mitukiewicz, Bryan_Sullivan, +0793201aabb, abel, jo,
           murari, Yeliz, Sean_Owen, Kai_Dietrich, +0207287aacc, rob,
           achuter, Matt.a

           Dom, Francois, Nacho, Phil, Chaals, DKA, Heiko, Kemp, Eman,
           Tony_Johansson, David_Rooks, SeanP


           edm, Jo


      * [4]Topics
          1. [5]Korea F2F
          2. [6]June f2f
          3. [7]F2F Zaragoza
          4. [8]reports from Task Forces
          5. [9]Checker Task FOrce
          6. [10]MobileOk Pro
          7. [11]WCAG2.0
          8. [12]BP-2
          9. [13]http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/TaskForces/Access
         10. [14]Accessibility Doc (bis)
         11. [15]issues and actions
         12. [16]OPen Actions
         13. [17]open issues
      * [18]Summary of Action Items

    <trackbot-ng> Date: 14 February 2008

    <scribe> scribe: edm

    <scribe> scribenick: edm

    <scribe> agenda: f2f update

Korea F2F

    jo: questionnaire is now open to confirm/unconfirm attendance of the
    Seoul f2f

    <jo> [19]Seoul Questionnaire

      [19] http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/37584/seoulf2f/

    jo: completing the questionnaire would be mandatory
    ... please complete within a week....
    ... DanA working on the agenda for the Mobile Wednesday event in

June f2f

F2F Zaragoza

    jo: need to confirm the Zaragoza location today - f2f during the
    week of June 9

    <jo> PROPOSED RESOLUTION: JUne F2F to be held week of 9th June in

    <Bryan> -1

    <jo> +1

    <matt> -1

    <matt> This F2F, as with the one in March is in conflict with Voice
    Browser WG

    jo: would like to request posting a questionnaire for the June f2f
    ... moving the date would require moving to a different location


    <MartinJ> +1

    jo: let's defer making a decision until it is clear if the meeting
    could be rescheduled yet remain in Zaragoza

    <scribe> ACTION: matt to post a questionnaire re June f2f by Feb.21
    [recorded in

    <trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-657 - Post a questionnaire re June f2f
    by Feb.21 [on Matt Womer - due 2008-02-21].

reports from Task Forces

    jo: nothing new to report re Content TF - no call this week

Checker Task FOrce

    srowen: beta release of reference checker is now complete
    ... should be a near final version, but May release expected after
    remaining bugs are weeded out

    <yeliz> mute yeliz

MobileOk Pro

    Kai: had a f2f last week in London - produced a revised charter and
    created first draft of MobileOk Pro tests
    ... draft MobileOk Pro test document to be available within a couple
    of weeks

    <jo> ACTION-639?

    <trackbot-ng> ACTION-639 -- Kai Scheppe to create a more elaborate
    charter with times, deliverables -- due 2008-02-12 -- OPEN


      [21] http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/639

    <jo> [22]Proposed mobileOK Pro Charter

      [22] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-bpwg/2008Feb/0027.html

    <srowen> (sorry, construction going on outside the window)

    <jo> PROPOSED RESOLUTION: Accept mobileOK Pro Charter as suggested
    by Kai under ACTION-639 modified to make clear ref black box testing

    <inserted> Scribe: Jo

    RESOLUTION: Accept mobileOK Pro Charter as suggested by Kai under
    ACTION-639 modified to make clear ref black box testing

    <inserted> Scribe: edm

    <Kai> ACTION: Kai to amend charter with black box part [recorded in

    <trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-658 - Amend charter with black box part
    [on Kai Scheppe - due 2008-02-21].

    jo: suggests creation of a dedicated page for MobileOk Pro TF

    <jo> ACTION: Scheppe to sort out administrative aspects of TF like a
    Web page [recorded in

    <trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-659 - Sort out administrative aspects
    of TF like a Web page [on Kai Scheppe - due 2008-02-21].

    <jo> close ACTION-639

    <trackbot-ng> ACTION-639 Create a more elaborate charter with times,
    deliverables closed

    <jo> close ACTION-612

    <trackbot-ng> ACTION-612 Write a charter for mobileOK Pro TF by
    January closed

    Kai: most of the MobileOk Pro related admin issues have been dealt

    <jo> close ACTION-636

    <trackbot-ng> ACTION-636 Put together a reasonble time table for
    completion of mobileOK Pro by the end of BPWG closed

    <jo> close ACTION-648

    <trackbot-ng> ACTION-648 Update the charter document based on output
    of F2F closed

    <jo> ACTION-647?

    <trackbot-ng> ACTION-647 -- Kai Scheppe to create a response to the
    concerns of the WG -- due 2008-02-13 -- OPEN


      [25] http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/647

    <jo> cloase ACTION-647

    <jo> close ACTION-647

    <trackbot-ng> ACTION-647 Create a response to the concerns of the WG

    <jo> ACTION-643?

    <trackbot-ng> ACTION-643 -- Kai Scheppe to post the test format to
    the list -- due 2008-02-12 -- OPEN


      [26] http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/643

    <jo> close ACTION-643

    <trackbot-ng> ACTION-643 Post the test format to the list closed

    Kai: Issue-236 requires a tool that emulates the DDC for testing


    achuter: not much progress over the last week or two - same draft
    still in place

    <jo> [27]Resume from MEASURES

      [27] http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/TaskForces/Accessibility/drafts/WD-mwbp-wcag-20080129/mwbp-wcag20.html#MEASURES

    Yeliz: working now on V1 comparison document ...
    ... not clear when this will be completed - should have an idea next

    Achuter: there are WCAG2.0 provisions for using relative units of
    ... Mininimal Keystrokes and NAVbar BP points are not mentioned in
    WCAG2.0 as they are difficult to test...
    ... content w/o frames is usually easier to use by anybody ...

    jo: break from WCAG for now - over to Bryan re BP2


    Bryan: still collecting comments on the existing BP-2 draft...
    ... perhaps bringing up specific BP-2 topics on the public list may
    help ...

    srowen: just sent a message to the list on that

    <jo> ACTION: Bryan to raise specific points of discussion on Public
    List [recorded in

    <trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-660 - Raise specific points of
    discussion on Public List [on Bryan Sullivan - due 2008-02-21].

    Sean message is at

      [29] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-bpwg/2008Feb/0059.html

    srowen: we should clarify ADC ...

    Bryan: ADC is a broader scope question - need to be resolved by the

    srowen: concerned that not addressing the ADC assumptions could make
    specifcying BPs quite difficult

    jo: perhaps we should raise the ADC issue and have another
    discussion on the public list

    Kai: technical discussion should be on a public list ...

    Bryan: but should the discussion of scope be on the public list?

    <srowen> + 1 to discussing on the public list

    Jo: yes - unless there are objections...
    ... back to review Alan's doc ...


      [30] http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/TaskForces/Accessibility/drafts/WD-mwbp-wcag-20080129/mwbp-wcag20.html#MEASURES

Accessibility Doc (bis)


    <jo> Resuming from

      [31] http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/TaskForces/Accessibility/drafts/WD-mwbp-wcag-20080129/mwbp-wcag20.html#NON-TEXT_ALTERNATIVES

    achuter: there are non-text elements other than images...

    jo: do not rely on the longdesc attribute of the img element which
    is often not supported

    achuter: should clarify that plug-ins may interfere with assistive
    technology - or be unavailable in a mobile environment
    ... page titles are quite important in a disability context - using
    short titles (as per BP) may not be helpful

    Yeliz: it is important to have descriptive titles - size matters

    jo: ... albeit having short titles makes sense in a mobile context

    kai: spelling out the issues does not necessarily help to resolve
    conflicting requirements (WCAG vs. mobile BP)

    <achuter> yes

    achuter: but there are also some WCAG - mobile BP synergies - e.g.,
    having the most differentating info first does help...

    <jo> [resume doc review at POP_UPs next time]

issues and actions

    <jo> [32]Pending Review

      [32] http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/pendingreview

    <jo> [33]http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/408

      [33] http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/408

    <jo> close ACTION-408

    <trackbot-ng> ACTION-408 Propose a rewording of the relevant section
    re: Accept header closed

    <jo> [34]http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/488

      [34] http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/488

    <jo> close ACTION-488

    <trackbot-ng> ACTION-488 Think about making scribing less onerous to
    those who are new to it and those whose first language is not
    English closed


      [35] http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/529


      [36] http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/530

    <jo> leave ACTION-529 open pending further efforts by Ed


      [37] http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/541

    <jo> [38]http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/541

      [38] http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/541

    <srowen> (this sounds defunct -- close it and let's move along)

    jo: seems to be about mobileOk usage guidelines ...

    <jo> close ACTION-545

    <trackbot-ng> ACTION-545 Add about-me in moki closed

    <jo> close ACTION-548

    <trackbot-ng> ACTION-548 Set up simple web interface on top of Java
    library for Alpha release closed

    <jo> close ACTION-588

    <trackbot-ng> ACTION-588 With Dan to raise this document at next HCG
    meeting informing them of our intentions and soliciting input closed

    jo: still working on

      [39] http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/614

    <jo> close ACTION-615

    <trackbot-ng> ACTION-615 produce new draft closed

    <jo> close ACTION-620

    <trackbot-ng> ACTION-620 Raise issue of co-editorship vacancy closed

    <srowen_> yes, prefer to take the time to finish off old actions

    <srowen_> anything < 2008

OPen Actions

    <jo> [40]http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/open

      [40] http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/open

    edm promises to complete ACTION-530... soon...

    <srowen_> 593 is defunct, it seems

    <jo> close ACTION-593

    <trackbot-ng> ACTION-593 Write a summary of preliminary work to be
    done for this working group to focus on Best Practices for Web
    applications closed

    <jo> close ACTION-609

    <trackbot-ng> ACTION-609 Get the work on the mobileOK test suite
    started closed

    <jo> close ACTION-616

    <trackbot-ng> ACTION-616 Circulate his thoughts on BP2 so that we
    set up an agenda closed

    jo: [41]http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/613
    still open ..

      [41] http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/613

    <jo> close ACTION-617

    <trackbot-ng> ACTION-617 Plan for a call to review document and
    coordinate with OEWG on it. closed

    edm: needs to work on

      [42] http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/618

    <jo> close ACTION-622

    <trackbot-ng> ACTION-622 Add a section summarising the proposed
    values and proposed names to next draft of Guidelines closed

    <jo> close ACTION-623

    <trackbot-ng> ACTION-623 Recast the Requirements section as a
    Summary and make it accurate as compared with the details in section
    4 closed

    <jo> close ACTION-627

    <trackbot-ng> ACTION-627 Make clear in the scope that we are talking
    browsing here closed

    <jo> close ACTION-635

    <trackbot-ng> ACTION-635 Summarize all the points that needs answers
    from mobileOK Pro TF closed

open issues

    <jo> [43]http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/issues/open

      [43] http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/issues/open

    srowen: issues-210 and 214 recorded in bugzilla

    jo: Checker Approval Criteria -
    [44]http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/issues/228 - how do
    we know when the checker is done?

      [44] http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/issues/228

    srowen: I guess all it should take is asking the WG memebers the
    do-you-approve question ?
    ... would remind the WG that this question wil be asked in ~2



    <abel_> bye

    <yeliz> bye

Summary of Action Items

    [NEW] ACTION: Bryan to raise specific points of discussion on Public
    List [recorded in
    [NEW] ACTION: Kai to amend charter with black box part [recorded in
    [NEW] ACTION: matt to post a questionnaire re June f2f by Feb.21
    [recorded in
    [NEW] ACTION: Scheppe to sort out administrative aspects of TF like
    a Web page [recorded in

    [End of minutes]

     Minutes formatted by David Booth's [49]scribe.perl version 1.133
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      [49] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm
      [50] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/

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Inferring ScribeNick: jo
Found Scribe: edm
Inferring ScribeNick: edm
Scribes: edm, Jo
ScribeNicks: edm, jo
Default Present: Shahriar, Jason, +, Matt, MartinJ, mig
uel, Ed_Mitukiewicz, Bryan_Sullivan, +0793201aabb, abel, jo, murari, Ye
liz, Sean_Owen, Kai_Dietrich, +0207287aacc, rob, achuter, Matt.a
Present: Shahriar Jason + Matt MartinJ miguel Ed_Mituki
ewicz Bryan_Sullivan +0793201aabb abel jo murari Yeliz Sean_Owen Kai_Di
etrich +0207287aacc rob achuter Matt.a
Regrets: Dom Francois Nacho Phil Chaals DKA Heiko Kemp Eman Tony_Johans
son David_Rooks SeanP
Agenda: [52]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-bpwg/2008Feb/003
Found Date: 14 Feb 2008
Guessing minutes URL: [53]http://www.w3.org/2008/02/14-bpwg-minutes.htm
People with action items: bryan kai matt scheppe

      [52] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-bpwg/2008Feb/0034.html
      [53] http://www.w3.org/2008/02/14-bpwg-minutes.html

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      [54] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm
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