- From: Gregg Kellogg <gregg@greggkellogg.com>
- Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2023 11:03:05 -0800
- To: felix@sasakiatcf.com
- Cc: Gregg Kellogg <gregg@greggkellogg.net>, Christian Chiarcos <christian.chiarcos@gmail.com>, Jorge Gracia del Río <jogracia@unizar.es>, r12a <ishida@w3.org>, public-bpmlod@w3.org, Addison Phillips <addisonI18N@gmail.com>
On Feb 7, 2023, at 9:32 AM, felix@sasakiatcf.com wrote: > > Thanks a lot for this pointer, Gregg. The i18n namespace is a great step and maybe 90% of what is needed. > > Is it also possible to use the i18n namespace with a language tag only? E.g. to have s.t. like > > [ > ex:title "The history of the World Wide Web"^^i18n:en; > ] In principle, yes, although the @ form is more relaxed in terms of the case of the language tag. You can also just specify the text direction without a language (if it made sense to do so) using ^^_rtl, for example. If this is the direction the WG goes in, there may be some semantic restrictions placed on this. Gregg > Best, > > Felix > > Am 2023-02-07 01:18, schrieb Gregg Kellogg: >>>> On Feb 2, 2023, at 2:36 AM, felix@sasakiatcf.com wrote: >>> Dear Christian and all, >>> I agree that currently there is a disconnect between the >>> stakeholders. One technical step to take would be to provide BCP 47 >>> identifiers as URIs, ideally even as RDF based URIs, so that others >>> can attach to the URIs the missing metadata and re-use them in other >>> contexts. >>> I tried to argue for that in the i18n WG, but we did not proceed so >>> far, also or mainly because of responsibilities: who should host >>> such URIs, the IETF or W3C or the Unicode consortium? Or should we >>> just write a description how to construct the URIs? Maybe this >>> thread helps to re-animate the discussion. >> There’s an open issue [1] on planned updates to RDF Concepts from >> the RDF-star working group. This considers a couple of ways to handle >> text direction in RDF including the Compound Literal [2] and i18n >> namespace [3] experimental features from JSON-LD 1.1, which were >> constrained by compatibility with RDF 1.1. RDF 1.2 is focused on >> making annotations on RDF statements, and there’s a proposal that >> could leverage this, in addition to better formalizing the other >> mechanisms. I don’t expect the RDF-star group to have too much >> bandwidth to focus on this now, but we’ll need to do something for >> RDF Concepts and related recommendations (about 21 in all). >> Gregg >> [1] https://github.com/w3c/rdf-concepts/issues/9 >> [2] >> https://www.w3.org/TR/json-ld11/#the-rdf-compoundliteral-class-and-the-rdf-language-and-rdf-direction-properties >> [3] https://www.w3.org/TR/json-ld11/#the-i18n-namespace >>> Best, >>> Felix >>> Am 2023-02-02 10:58, schrieb Christian Chiarcos: >>> Dear Richard, dear all, >>> just skimming through your documents, I was wondering how the >>> recommended [3] metadata approach looks like in practice. Would the >>> general recommendation be to use language indexing [4], then? I see >>> some issues with that because the same concept can have multiple >>> lexicalizations in the same language (say, "Severe acute respiratory >>> syndrome coronavirus 2"@en alongside "SARS‑CoV‑2"@en, "Wuhan >>> Corona virus"@en, etc.), but the use of a dict here implies you get >>> one string per language max. >>> Also, are there any constraints or recommendations about the >>> metadata >>> vocabulary (apologies if I overlooked) ? From the linguistic side, >>> BCP47 has been criticized a lot because people would like to add >>> more >>> metadata than ISO 632 or BCP47 support (Gillis-Webber & Tittel 2019, >>> 2020), BCP47 covers ISO 632-1 and ISO 632-2 only, but not ISO 632-3 >>> (which is needed for "smaller" languages), ISO 632-3 is insufficient >>> by itself (so that people introduce alternative classifications, >>> e.g., >>> Nordhoff et al. 2011), and most people seem to actually prefer to >>> identify languages by URIs in order to provide explicit metadata (De >>> Melo 2015, Nordhoff et al. 2011). >>> So far, it seems this discussion in the LLOD community is largely >>> detached from the discussion in the W3C Internationalization Working >>> Group, but these things should definitely be connected to get the >>> perspectives of spec developers, providers and consumers of >>> linguistic/language data covered. Thank you for taking the >>> initiative! >>> Best, >>> Christian >>> Refs: >>> Gillis-Webber, F., & Tittel, S. (2019). The shortcomings of language >>> tags for linked data when modeling lesser-known languages. In _2nd >>> Conference on Language, Data and Knowledge (LDK 2019)_. Schloss >>> Dagstuhl-Leibniz-Zentrum fuer Informatik. >>> Gillis-Webber, F., & Tittel, S. (2020, May). A framework for shared >>> agreement of language tags beyond ISO 639. In _Proceedings of the >>> Twelfth Language Resources and Evaluation Conference_ (pp. >>> 3333-3339). >>> De Melo, G. (2015). Lexvo. org: Language-related information for the >>> linguistic linked data cloud. _Semantic Web_, _6_(4), 393-400. >>> Nordhoff, S., & Hammarström, H. (2011). Glottolog/Langdoc: Defining >>> dialects, languages, and language families as collections of >>> resources. In _First International Workshop on Linked Science >>> 2011-In >>> conjunction with the International Semantic Web Conference (ISWC >>> 2011)_. >>> Am Do., 2. Feb. 2023 um 09:57 Uhr schrieb Jorge Gracia del Río >>> <jogracia@unizar.es>: >>> Dear Richard, >>> Thanks for this update! We will certainly take a closer look at the >>> report >>> Best, >>> Jorge >>>> El mié, 1 feb 2023 a las 18:14, r12a (<ishida@w3.org>) escribió: >>> dear BPMLOD folks, >>> Best wishes for your relaunch! >>> Since the last round of work on BPMLOD the W3C >>> Internationalization Working Group has spent a lot of time talking >>> with spec developers about how to attach metadata to strings to >>> indicate the language and the directionality of the string. For >>> example, JSON LD adopted some new approaches to allow the >>> management of this information.[1] I wonder whether this is >>> something that would be of interest to the BPMLOD group. >>> We produced a document called Strings on the Web: Language and >>> Direction Metadata (https://w3c.github.io/string-meta/ [1]) which >>> gives an overview of our current thinking. >>> best regards, >>> Richard >>> [1] https://www.w3.org/TR/json-ld11/#string-internationalization >>> [2] >> Links: >> ------ >> [1] >> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://w3c.github.io/string-meta/__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!Rgepxj7QNGkaui_sSstuffPD7xC42Z6-Te9byilqDIDG0ByuYwhfbhg8QcGhfw2zkKknCuRt4oXLKQ$ >> [2] >> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.w3.org/TR/json-ld11/*string-internationalization__;Iw!!D9dNQwwGXtA!Rgepxj7QNGkaui_sSstuffPD7xC42Z6-Te9byilqDIDG0ByuYwhfbhg8QcGhfw2zkKknCuSeM8ekBQ$ >> [3] https://w3c.github.io/string-meta/#language-metadata >> [4] https://w3c.github.io/string-meta/#localization-considerations
Received on Tuesday, 7 February 2023 19:03:31 UTC