- From: Felix Sasaki <fsasaki@w3.org>
- Date: Fri, 07 Feb 2014 14:01:54 +0100
- To: "John P. McCrae" <jmccrae@cit-ec.uni-bielefeld.de>
- CC: Dave Lewis <dave.lewis@cs.tcd.ie>, public-bpmlod@w3.org
- Message-ID: <52F4D942.5080604@w3.org>
Am 07.02.14 13:58, schrieb John P. McCrae: > Hi, > > > On Fri, Feb 7, 2014 at 12:39 PM, Felix Sasaki <fsasaki@w3.org > <mailto:fsasaki@w3.org>> wrote: > > Am 07.02.14 12:30, schrieb Dave Lewis: >> Felix, >> >> On 07/02/2014 10:43, Felix Sasaki wrote: >>> Hi all, >>> >>> sorry that I could not make today's call. I am wondering if >>> below mail, taken from >>> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-translators/2014JanMar/0024.html >>> could lead to two best practices: >>> >>> 1) When you prepare RDF content for translation (ontologies and >>> or pure statements), consider extracting the text to be >>> translated. That will assure that all translators do the same. >> >> So would this need some extraction and remerging rules for RDF in >> XML and turtle? > > The input format could be RDF in XML, Turtle, or something else. > Like you can generate XLIFF out of java, javascript, HTML etc. > > >> And should we specify this generically or perhaps directly into >> XLIFF? > > I was mostly wondering about recommending a workflow > 1) create linked data in one language > 2) extract to XLIFF > 3) translate > 4) merge back into 1) > which may makes sense for any serialization of RDF. The ITS2 > metadata that I had used in that slides uses the metadata in an > RDF 1.1. HTML literal. That data type can be used in RDF 1.1. > independent of the RDF serialization - it works like an XML literal. > > > So this is more-or-less what we did as a baseline in Monnet (although > plain text instead of XLIFF). The key issue with this approach is that > you lose the context of the ontology when you are translating, which > can be a problem when you have very short labels for your concepts > that are highly ambiguous. I am not sure how much of this context can > be captured with XLIFF. See the example file I have sent around. It has a skeleton file that provides at least some context. Best, Felix > > >> >> Also, in general should we treat translation of RDF >> type/class/relationship names differently from translation of >> literals? > > Actually I was just thinking of literals, nothing else. So the BP > I had in mind is related to literals. Good point, one has to make > clear that this is not about type / class etc. localization. > > +1: BP is only translate literals > > > >> The MONNET guys might a good handle on this. >> >> Is there also best practice we should consider or reference for >> non text data types (xsd). >> >>> >>> 2) Consider adding metadata to the RDF content to guide that >>> extraction, e.g. to identify fixed terms. An example how that >>> could work is on slide 31-32 of >>> http://download.yandex.ru/company/experience/WSD/wsd_sasaki.pdf >>> >> >> that makes sense - but do we need to have a special literal type >> to indicate that it should be parsed for 'inline' tags? > > See above - the HTML literal > http://www.w3.org/TR/rdf11-concepts/#section-html > should do the job. > > > >> Also in some cases, for example if the span had >> its-term--into-ref pointing to a term definitions elsewhere in >> the linked data cloud, best practice might be to reform (i.e. >> extract) the literal into a NIF subgraph, with the annotated >> sub-string as separate nif:string objects. > > Not sure if for generating an XLIFF file (see above) you would a > NIF subgraph. The main motivation for my BP proposal was: allow > people working with localization tools (= processing XLIFF files) > to translate labels in linke data. > > So all the below makes sense IMO for textual content, extracted > from HTML / XML etc. But processing the labels in linked data with > NIF? Not sure if that is needed and might even hinder XLIFF based > using localization workflows. > > Disclaimer: really nothing against NIF ;) My point is only about > the right approach for label translation. > > Best, > > Felix > > >> >> A common re-merge process would also then be needed so the >> translated literal is available without inline mark-up for >> processes (idenxing, presentation) that don't care about the >> translation process. >> >> The ITS<->NIF mapping in the ITS 2.0 spec would provide a >> starting poitn for this: >> http://www.w3.org/TR/2013/REC-its20-20131029/#conversion-to-nif >> >> i'd also add: >> >> 3) can we advise on use of some form of isTranslationOf or >> isTranslatedFrom (not necessarily the same?) RDF relationship to >> use in linked data? In CNGL we use something that is a >> specialisation of prov:wasDerivedFrom, but that's because we are >> interested recording the details of the translation processes >> (and hence the other provenance classes and relationships). I >> could imagine there are use cases where we are interested in a >> 'translated from' link but not the provenance? >> >> cheers, >> Dave >> >> >> >>> Thoughts? >>> >>> - Felix >>> >>> >>> -------- Original-Nachricht -------- >>> Betreff: Fwd: "Organization Ontology" Japanese translation >>> available >>> Weitersenden-Datum: Wed, 05 Feb 2014 21:47:43 +0000 >>> Weitersenden-Von: w3c-translators@w3.org >>> <mailto:w3c-translators@w3.org> >>> Datum: Wed, 05 Feb 2014 21:46:48 +0000 >>> Von: Phil Archer <phila@w3.org> <mailto:phila@w3.org> >>> An: Shuji Kamitsuna <ax2s-kmtn@asahi-net.or.jp> >>> <mailto:ax2s-kmtn@asahi-net.or.jp> >>> Kopie (CC): w3c-translators@w3.org >>> <mailto:w3c-translators@w3.org>, Naomi Yoshizawa <naomi@w3.org> >>> <mailto:naomi@w3.org> >>> >>> >>> >>> Hi again Shuji, >>> >>> I've been through your translation of ORG and... this is very >>> interesting. The person behind ORG is not the same as the people behind >>> DCAT and the styles are quite different. One way in which this becomes >>> obvious is that Dave Reynolds (ORG) does not give the labels for his >>> terms in the specification, but only in the schema. Therefore, very >>> reasonably, you have not translated the labels. When I come to transfer >>> your work in the schema, I can only copy the comments. >>> >>> And, I even found a whole class in the schema that's not in the spec! >>> >>> Ah well, I have copied the comments into the schema as you can now see >>> athttp://www.w3.org/ns/org.ttl. The labels are available in the other >>> languages for Org (FR and IT) but that's because we were supplied with >>> translations of the schema, not the spec - which is the much bigger task >>> that you have taken on. >>> >>> If you or Naomi wants to send me the Japanese labels, I'll certainly add >>> them, but the definitions are all in the schema now. >>> >>> Again, thank you for all your work on this. >>> >>> Phil. >>> >>> >> ------- Forwarded message ------- >>> >> From: "Shuji Kamitsuna"<ax2s-kmtn@asahi-net.or.jp> <mailto:ax2s-kmtn@asahi-net.or.jp> >>> >> To:w3c-translators@w3.org <mailto:w3c-translators@w3.org> >>> >> Subject: "Organization Ontology" Japanese translation available >>> >> Date: Sat, 01 Feb 2014 12:14:58 +0100 >>> >> >>> >> Dear Sir and Madam >>> >> >>> >> This is Shuji Kamitsuna@Japan. >>> >> >>> >> "Organization Ontology" >>> >>http://www.w3.org/TR/2014/REC-vocab-org-20140116/ >>> >> >>> >> in Japanese is available now" >>> >> >>> >> 組織オントロジー >>> >>http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~ax2s-kmtn/internet/rdf/REC-vocab-org-20140116.html <http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/%7Eax2s-kmtn/internet/rdf/REC-vocab-org-20140116.html> >>> >> >>> >> cf.<http://www.w3.org/2005/11/Translations/Query?rec=vocab-org&lang=any&translator=any&date=any&sorting=byTechnology&output=FullHTML&submit=Submit> <http://www.w3.org/2005/11/Translations/Query?rec=vocab-org&lang=any&translator=any&date=any&sorting=byTechnology&output=FullHTML&submit=Submit> >>> >> >>> >> Regards, >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> -- >>> >> Coralie Mercier - W3C Communications Team -http://www.w3.org >>> >>mailto:coralie@w3.org +336 4322 0001 <tel:%2B336%204322%200001> http://www.w3.org/People/CMercier/ >>> > >>> > >>> > ---- >>> > Ivan Herman, W3C >>> > Digital Publishing Activity Lead >>> > Home:http://www.w3.org/People/Ivan/ >>> > mobile:+31-641044153 <tel:%2B31-641044153> >>> > GPG: 0x343F1A3D >>> > FOAF:http://www.ivan-herman.net/foaf >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> >>> -- >>> >>> >>> Phil Archer >>> W3C Data Activity Lead >>> http://www.w3.org/2013/data/ >>> >>> http://philarcher.org >>> +44 (0)7887 767755 <tel:%2B44%20%280%297887%20767755> >>> @philarcher1 >>> >>> >>> >>> >> > >
Received on Friday, 7 February 2014 13:02:12 UTC