Re: Workflows for localizing RDF (Fwd: Fwd: "Organization Ontology" Japanese translation available)

Am 07.02.14 13:58, schrieb John P. McCrae:
> Hi,
>
>
> On Fri, Feb 7, 2014 at 12:39 PM, Felix Sasaki <fsasaki@w3.org 
> <mailto:fsasaki@w3.org>> wrote:
>
>     Am 07.02.14 12:30, schrieb Dave Lewis:
>>     Felix,
>>
>>     On 07/02/2014 10:43, Felix Sasaki wrote:
>>>     Hi all,
>>>
>>>     sorry that I could not make today's call. I am wondering if
>>>     below mail, taken from
>>>     http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-translators/2014JanMar/0024.html
>>>     could lead to two best practices:
>>>
>>>     1) When you prepare RDF content for translation (ontologies and
>>>     or pure statements), consider extracting the text to be
>>>     translated. That will assure that all translators do the same.
>>
>>     So would this need some extraction and remerging rules for RDF in
>>     XML and turtle?
>
>     The input format could be RDF in XML, Turtle, or something else.
>     Like you can generate XLIFF out of java, javascript, HTML etc.
>
>
>>     And should we specify this generically or perhaps directly into
>>     XLIFF?
>
>     I was mostly wondering about recommending a workflow
>     1) create linked data in one language
>     2) extract to XLIFF
>     3) translate
>     4) merge back into 1)
>     which may makes sense for any serialization of RDF. The ITS2
>     metadata that I had used in that slides uses the metadata in an
>     RDF 1.1. HTML literal. That data type can be used in RDF 1.1.
>     independent of the RDF serialization - it works like an XML literal.
>
>
> So this is more-or-less what we did as a baseline in Monnet (although 
> plain text instead of XLIFF). The key issue with this approach is that 
> you lose the context of the ontology when you are translating, which 
> can be a problem when you have very short labels for your concepts 
> that are highly ambiguous. I am not sure how much of this context can 
> be captured with XLIFF.

See the example file I have sent around. It has a skeleton file that 
provides at least some context.

Best,

Felix

>
>
>>
>>     Also, in general  should we treat translation of RDF
>>     type/class/relationship names differently from translation of
>>     literals? 
>
>     Actually I was just thinking of literals, nothing else. So the BP
>     I had in mind is related to literals. Good point, one has to make
>     clear that this is not about type / class etc. localization.
>
> +1: BP is only translate literals
>
>
>
>>     The MONNET guys might a good handle on this.
>>
>>     Is there also best practice we should consider or reference for
>>     non text data types (xsd).
>>
>>>
>>>     2) Consider adding metadata to the RDF content to guide that
>>>     extraction, e.g. to identify fixed terms. An example how that
>>>     could work is on slide 31-32 of
>>>     http://download.yandex.ru/company/experience/WSD/wsd_sasaki.pdf
>>>
>>
>>     that makes sense - but do we need to have a special literal type
>>     to indicate that it should be parsed for 'inline' tags? 
>
>     See above - the HTML literal
>     http://www.w3.org/TR/rdf11-concepts/#section-html
>     should do the job.
>
>
>
>>     Also in some cases, for example if the span had
>>     its-term--into-ref pointing to a term definitions elsewhere in
>>     the linked data cloud, best practice might be to reform (i.e.
>>     extract) the literal into a NIF subgraph, with the annotated
>>     sub-string as separate nif:string objects.
>
>     Not sure if for generating an XLIFF file (see above) you would a
>     NIF subgraph. The main motivation for my BP proposal was: allow
>     people working with localization tools (= processing XLIFF files)
>     to translate labels in linke data.
>
>     So all the below makes sense IMO for textual content, extracted
>     from HTML / XML etc. But processing the labels in linked data with
>     NIF? Not sure if that is needed and might even hinder XLIFF based
>     using localization workflows.
>
>     Disclaimer: really nothing against NIF ;) My point is only about
>     the right approach for label translation.
>
>     Best,
>
>     Felix
>
>
>>
>>     A common re-merge process would also then be needed so the
>>     translated literal is available without inline mark-up for
>>     processes (idenxing, presentation) that don't care about the
>>     translation process.
>>
>>     The ITS<->NIF mapping in the ITS 2.0 spec would provide a
>>     starting poitn for this:
>>     http://www.w3.org/TR/2013/REC-its20-20131029/#conversion-to-nif
>>
>>     i'd also add:
>>
>>     3) can we advise on use of some form of isTranslationOf or
>>     isTranslatedFrom (not necessarily the same?) RDF relationship to
>>     use in linked data? In CNGL we use something that is a
>>     specialisation of prov:wasDerivedFrom, but that's because we are
>>     interested recording the details of the translation processes
>>     (and hence the other provenance classes and relationships).  I
>>     could imagine there are use cases where we are interested in a
>>     'translated from' link but not the provenance?
>>
>>     cheers,
>>     Dave
>>
>>
>>
>>>     Thoughts?
>>>
>>>     - Felix
>>>
>>>
>>>     -------- Original-Nachricht --------
>>>     Betreff:  Fwd: "Organization Ontology" Japanese translation
>>>     available
>>>     Weitersenden-Datum:  Wed, 05 Feb 2014 21:47:43 +0000
>>>     Weitersenden-Von:  w3c-translators@w3.org
>>>     <mailto:w3c-translators@w3.org>
>>>     Datum:  Wed, 05 Feb 2014 21:46:48 +0000
>>>     Von:  Phil Archer <phila@w3.org> <mailto:phila@w3.org>
>>>     An:  Shuji Kamitsuna <ax2s-kmtn@asahi-net.or.jp>
>>>     <mailto:ax2s-kmtn@asahi-net.or.jp>
>>>     Kopie (CC):  w3c-translators@w3.org
>>>     <mailto:w3c-translators@w3.org>, Naomi Yoshizawa <naomi@w3.org>
>>>     <mailto:naomi@w3.org>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>     Hi again Shuji,
>>>
>>>     I've been through your translation of ORG and... this is very
>>>     interesting. The person behind ORG is not the same as the people behind
>>>     DCAT and the styles are quite different. One way in which this becomes
>>>     obvious is that Dave Reynolds (ORG) does not give the labels for his
>>>     terms in the specification, but only in the schema. Therefore, very
>>>     reasonably, you have not translated the labels. When I come to transfer
>>>     your work in the schema, I can only copy the comments.
>>>
>>>     And, I even found a whole class in the schema that's not in the spec!
>>>
>>>     Ah well, I have copied the comments into the schema as you can now see
>>>     athttp://www.w3.org/ns/org.ttl. The labels are available in the other
>>>     languages for Org (FR and IT) but that's because we were supplied with
>>>     translations of the schema, not the spec - which is the much bigger task
>>>     that you have taken on.
>>>
>>>     If you or Naomi wants to send me the Japanese labels, I'll certainly add
>>>     them, but the definitions are all in the schema now.
>>>
>>>     Again, thank you for all your work on this.
>>>
>>>     Phil.
>>>
>>>     >> ------- Forwarded message -------
>>>     >> From: "Shuji Kamitsuna"<ax2s-kmtn@asahi-net.or.jp>  <mailto:ax2s-kmtn@asahi-net.or.jp>
>>>     >> To:w3c-translators@w3.org  <mailto:w3c-translators@w3.org>
>>>     >> Subject: "Organization Ontology" Japanese translation available
>>>     >> Date: Sat, 01 Feb 2014 12:14:58 +0100
>>>     >>
>>>     >> Dear Sir and Madam
>>>     >>
>>>     >> This is Shuji Kamitsuna@Japan.
>>>     >>
>>>     >> "Organization Ontology"
>>>     >>http://www.w3.org/TR/2014/REC-vocab-org-20140116/
>>>     >>
>>>     >> in Japanese is available now"
>>>     >>
>>>     >> 組織オントロジー
>>>     >>http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~ax2s-kmtn/internet/rdf/REC-vocab-org-20140116.html  <http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/%7Eax2s-kmtn/internet/rdf/REC-vocab-org-20140116.html>
>>>     >>
>>>     >> cf.<http://www.w3.org/2005/11/Translations/Query?rec=vocab-org&lang=any&translator=any&date=any&sorting=byTechnology&output=FullHTML&submit=Submit>  <http://www.w3.org/2005/11/Translations/Query?rec=vocab-org&lang=any&translator=any&date=any&sorting=byTechnology&output=FullHTML&submit=Submit>
>>>     >>
>>>     >> Regards,
>>>     >>
>>>     >>
>>>     >> --
>>>     >> Coralie Mercier  -  W3C Communications Team  -http://www.w3.org
>>>     >>mailto:coralie@w3.org  +336 4322 0001  <tel:%2B336%204322%200001>  http://www.w3.org/People/CMercier/
>>>     >
>>>     >
>>>     > ----
>>>     > Ivan Herman, W3C
>>>     > Digital Publishing Activity Lead
>>>     > Home:http://www.w3.org/People/Ivan/
>>>     > mobile:+31-641044153  <tel:%2B31-641044153>
>>>     > GPG: 0x343F1A3D
>>>     > FOAF:http://www.ivan-herman.net/foaf
>>>     >
>>>     >
>>>     >
>>>     >
>>>     >
>>>
>>>     -- 
>>>
>>>
>>>     Phil Archer
>>>     W3C Data Activity Lead
>>>     http://www.w3.org/2013/data/
>>>
>>>     http://philarcher.org
>>>     +44 (0)7887 767755  <tel:%2B44%20%280%297887%20767755>
>>>     @philarcher1
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>

Received on Friday, 7 February 2014 13:02:12 UTC