Re: German Translation WCAG 2.1 - Disapproval from Caspers, Tomas on 2022-03-24 (public-auth-trans-de@w3.org from March 2022)

From: Caspers, Tomas <tomas.caspers@accenture.com>
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2022 09:27:39 +0000
To: "public-auth-trans-de@w3.org" <public-auth-trans-de@w3.org>
CC: Stefan Schumacher <stefan@duckflight.de>, Eric Eggert <eric@outline.rocks>
Message-ID: <6F040A00-B9A6-40F0-8D23-8ABF262E636C@accenture.com>
All,

the translated document already contains a link to an errata file. Team will discuss if we use this to explain the subtle differences between technologies and techniques and why we need to stick to the previously translated version.

Tomas

Von: Stefan Schumacher <stefan@duckflight.de>
Datum: Donnerstag, 24. März 2022 um 09:59
An: Eric Eggert <eric@outline.rocks>
Cc: "public-auth-trans-de@w3.org" <public-auth-trans-de@w3.org>
Betreff: [External] Re: German Translation WCAG 2.1 - Disapproval
Neu gesendet von: <public-auth-trans-de@w3.org>
Neu gesendet am: Donnerstag, 24. März 2022 um 09:58

This message is from an EXTERNAL SENDER - be CAUTIOUS, particularly with links and attachments.

Hello Eric,

Am 24.03.22 um 08:07 schrieb Eric Eggert:
You can find the current translation guidelines for W3C Standards
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.w3.org_Consortium_Translation_Overview.html&d=DwIDaQ&c=eIGjsITfXP_y-DLLX0uEHXJvU8nOHrUK8IrwNKOtkVU&r=dmkTPPzpQiGTSkTbDI2PH20MTmzyRWhrxNyRy5GV0JE&m=hPBi4N_HFCSl6PjtzAzodNeBbXVJLdUCJSrsCMuMrKJALgT98rN2jtK-Wqw3aXCx&s=-XUs2WfhT7O0YC3hKKXkxoUkXo1G_VOi9hdK0h3CHgc&e=


I found the wrong link, because my search was too quick, and I didn't
look at the documents for a long time. Thanks for correcting me.


Among these guidelines, it states:

     **Do not change or adapt or add to the meaning of the English
     version in your translation.** If you have suggestions for changes
     to the English version, provide them to the technical report editors
     as indicated in *Status of this Document section** of the technical
     report.

Indeed you have to translate even errors that have an errata, so that
the translation shows the error.

That does not mean that you cannot add an annotation, that points the
reader to the errata and explains the errata.


I do not find any information on how to add translation notes inside the
normative text. (But this might be under-documented.)


If you follow this link
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.w3.org_Consortium_Legal_IPR-2DFAQ-2D20000620-23translate&d=DwIDaQ&c=eIGjsITfXP_y-DLLX0uEHXJvU8nOHrUK8IrwNKOtkVU&r=dmkTPPzpQiGTSkTbDI2PH20MTmzyRWhrxNyRy5GV0JE&m=hPBi4N_HFCSl6PjtzAzodNeBbXVJLdUCJSrsCMuMrKJALgT98rN2jtK-Wqw3aXCx&s=DR_FGhSgAUY87SFi5lzuwXqiDX7HA-IsfITbNATusGw&e=

you will find the section:
May I annotate one of your specifications?

Here it says that you can annotate specifications if you follow the
described procedure. Indeed the documents are old, but still valid as
far as I can see.

As an example for annotated translations you can refer to the German
translations of various documents, e.g. HTML 4.01.
A short example can be found here:
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.schumacher-2Dnetz.de_TR_2013_REC-2Dhtml-2Drdfa-2D20130822.de.html&d=DwIDaQ&c=eIGjsITfXP_y-DLLX0uEHXJvU8nOHrUK8IrwNKOtkVU&r=dmkTPPzpQiGTSkTbDI2PH20MTmzyRWhrxNyRy5GV0JE&m=hPBi4N_HFCSl6PjtzAzodNeBbXVJLdUCJSrsCMuMrKJALgT98rN2jtK-Wqw3aXCx&s=n2Dzdjdc7otIYJHFiWgt5Jwbnidt0YJ5nYWGMcQr7mw&e=


In the header it is stated that the document contains annotations.
Within the document there is a clearly marked section "Kommentar des
Übersetzer" with a different background color, the same color that is
used for the translation header.


That said, the WCAG 2.0 translation has an “Anmerkungen” section in the
top disclaimer area, and links to a separate “Anmerkungen zur deutschen
Übersetzung der WCAG 2.0” page.
(https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.w3.org_Translations_WCAG20-2Dde_anmerkungen.html&d=DwIDaQ&c=eIGjsITfXP_y-DLLX0uEHXJvU8nOHrUK8IrwNKOtkVU&r=dmkTPPzpQiGTSkTbDI2PH20MTmzyRWhrxNyRy5GV0JE&m=hPBi4N_HFCSl6PjtzAzodNeBbXVJLdUCJSrsCMuMrKJALgT98rN2jtK-Wqw3aXCx&s=gflIa8CH7R_Z7qdLI6oirKUPavUAYOpdnFeEFPhoeEU&e=

<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.w3.org_Translations_WCAG20-2Dde_anmerkungen.html&d=DwIDaQ&c=eIGjsITfXP_y-DLLX0uEHXJvU8nOHrUK8IrwNKOtkVU&r=dmkTPPzpQiGTSkTbDI2PH20MTmzyRWhrxNyRy5GV0JE&m=hPBi4N_HFCSl6PjtzAzodNeBbXVJLdUCJSrsCMuMrKJALgT98rN2jtK-Wqw3aXCx&s=gflIa8CH7R_Z7qdLI6oirKUPavUAYOpdnFeEFPhoeEU&e= >)

I have seen that approach, imho, a good way to list the comments in the
document. But keeping the comments in place were misunderstandings could
occur is more helpful than only showing these "Anmerkungen" at the
bottom. Readers search for specific sections, read them and leave. So
the "Anmerkungen" will not be read in most cases.

Just my two cent
STS





I think adding a note about the wording in a similar place/document for
WCAG 2.1 might help to clarify the issue. I wonder if that could ease
the concerns raised by Gottfried Zimmermann.

👋 Eric

On 23 Mar 2022, at 22:22, Stefan Schumacher wrote:

     Hello editors and translators,

     Am 23.03.22 um 09:48 schrieb Eric Eggert:

         The translation of assistive technology as “assistierende
         Techniken” was a WCAG 2.0 translation consensus reached as
         German speaking countries have different names. The discussion
         only refers to sources in Germany for the impetus of the change
         request where “assistive Technologien” is prevalent.

     in the past we used to add a "comment of the translator(s)" in a box
     that was clearly marked as a comment of the translator(s).

     Adding these comments helps readers to understand why translators
     used terms that, e.g., might be not up to date anymore.

     A comment why the term "assistierende Techniken" is used and that it
     might be referred to as "Assistive Techniken" or "Assistive
     Technologien" in other sources and why this decision was made, would
     help in this case.

     Adding these comments is fine with W3C as you can see in
     https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.w3.org_International_2004_06_translation-2Dprocess&d=DwIDaQ&c=eIGjsITfXP_y-DLLX0uEHXJvU8nOHrUK8IrwNKOtkVU&r=dmkTPPzpQiGTSkTbDI2PH20MTmzyRWhrxNyRy5GV0JE&m=hPBi4N_HFCSl6PjtzAzodNeBbXVJLdUCJSrsCMuMrKJALgT98rN2jtK-Wqw3aXCx&s=mhJx3zdgVODqwHnjWyepFOtzjiZW6_WK1H2SanmdKws&e=

     <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.w3.org_International_2004_06_translation-2Dprocess&d=DwIDaQ&c=eIGjsITfXP_y-DLLX0uEHXJvU8nOHrUK8IrwNKOtkVU&r=dmkTPPzpQiGTSkTbDI2PH20MTmzyRWhrxNyRy5GV0JE&m=hPBi4N_HFCSl6PjtzAzodNeBbXVJLdUCJSrsCMuMrKJALgT98rN2jtK-Wqw3aXCx&s=mhJx3zdgVODqwHnjWyepFOtzjiZW6_WK1H2SanmdKws&e= >.
     See "Changes to the text".
     Please correct me if that is not true for authorized translations.

     I would say a good translation should have these comments in place
     where a precise translation is not possible, where multiple terms
     might be right, and in case there are already Errata that correct
     the original version.

     Regards
     Stefan Schumacher

     PS. When I translated WCAG 2.1 end of 2018 up to chapter 1.4 without
     looking at WCAG 2.0 I used "assistierende Technologie". Even though
     I prefer "Technologie" over "Technik" myself, I would not deem it a
     reason for a general disapproval.


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Received on Thursday, 24 March 2022 09:27:58 UTC