W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-audio@w3.org > July to September 2013

Re: New proposal for fixing race conditions

From: Ehsan Akhgari <ehsan.akhgari@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2013 16:45:10 -0400
Message-ID: <CANTur_6bJ=TU0cH2oOBCjPvZho2Wo0+Ee3Z1vMFVs4Ab1qZDUg@mail.gmail.com>
To: Chris Rogers <crogers@google.com>
Cc: Marcus Geelnard <mage@opera.com>, Olivier Thereaux <Olivier.Thereaux@bbc.co.uk>, WG <public-audio@w3.org>
On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 4:30 PM, Chris Rogers <crogers@google.com> wrote:

>
>
>
> On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 12:56 PM, Marcus Geelnard <mage@opera.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi Olivier,
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 1:02 PM, Olivier Thereaux <
>> Olivier.Thereaux@bbc.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> On 23/07/2013 17:11, "Chris Wilson" <cwilso@google.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> * the cost of the proposed solutions (e.g "I doubt that memcpy will do
>>> much harm" versus "quite a heavy weight on interacting with audio buffer
>>> data").
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> I would like to see some more facts on the table here too.
>>
>> I hope that I have shown that:
>>
>> 1) The speed impact of memcpy is negligible.
>>
>> 2) For the use cases I've considered so far the additional memory impact
>> is temporary and transient, and shouldn't prevent any use case.
>>
>> I think that any concrete examples showing the opposite would be valuable
>> to this discussion.
>>
>
> As I've mentioned before, it's not the cost of the memcpy() itself, but
> the memory footprint.
>
> PCM audio data in an AudioBuffer is 20Mb per minute for stereo @44.1KHz.
>  The cost is more than double for professional quality 96Khz data.
>
> In an audio analysis or editor application, it wouldn't be at all unusual
> to examine or display minutes of audio at a time.  Typical songs are 2 - 4
> minutes long, and it wouldn't be unusual to deal with editing multiple
> songs at a time.  Even with a total length of audio data of only 10
> minutes, we're already at 200Mb for the contents of the data.  Now think
> about what happens when it's necessary to create copies of that data, and
> we're now dealing with 400Mb!  Mobile devices are quite memory constrained,
> with even some relatively recent devices such as the iPhone 4 and similar
> Android devices having only 500Mb total RAM.  Keep in mind that not all of
> this memory will be available for audio data, since much of it is required
> for the resident system software, and other applications.
>

That's true, but there are two things to keep in mind.

1.  None of the presented solution proposals make it necessary to perform a
memcpy in all cases.
2.  Such audio editing application need to handle the case where they don't
have enough system memory at any rate in a graceful way.  There are many
devices out there which can run modern web browsers but still have 256MB of
RAM, which means that even in the current world, this application cannot
keep the entire content of the song in memory at all times.  Such solutions
can involve things such as storing PCM content in Indexed DB and only load
parts of it into memory for processing at a given point in time.  If we
want to focus on this problem, there are a whole number of improvements
which we can make to the API to make such kinds of applications possible on
low to mid range mobile devices.


> Unless we're talking about memory leaks, all memory allocations are
> temporary or transient, but their effect on system performance is not, with
> VM system swapping entering into the picture, degrading the entire device's
> performance.
>

True.  On many of these devices there is no swap partition available at
all, even.

Cheers,
--
Ehsan
<http://ehsanakhgari.org/>


> Chris
>
>
>>
>>
>> /Marcus
>>
>>
>>
>>> Olivier
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----------------------------
>>> http://www.bbc.co.uk
>>> This e-mail (and any attachments) is confidential and
>>> may contain personal views which are not the views of the BBC unless
>>> specifically stated.
>>> If you have received it in
>>> error, please delete it from your system.
>>> Do not use, copy or disclose the
>>> information in any way nor act in reliance on it and notify the sender
>>> immediately.
>>> Please note that the BBC monitors e-mails
>>> sent or received.
>>> Further communication will signify your consent to
>>> this.
>>> -----------------------------
>>>
>>
>>
>
Received on Thursday, 25 July 2013 20:46:18 UTC

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.4.0 : Friday, 17 January 2020 19:03:23 UTC