RE: AccName for fieldset and legend, plus role="group" and role="legend" proposal and questions from Bryan Garaventa on 2019-04-20 (public-aria@w3.org from April 2019)

From: Bryan Garaventa <bryan.garaventa@levelaccess.com>
Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2019 00:20:28 +0000
To: David MacDonald <david100@sympatico.ca>, James Nurthen <nurthen@adobe.com>
CC: Scott O'Hara <sohara@paciellogroup.com>, ARIA Working Group <public-aria@w3.org>
Message-ID: <BYAPR03MB480577A6AA568B475991A386F2200@BYAPR03MB4805.namprd03.prod.outlook.com>
Thanks,
That makes sense to me as well.

So, any application of a role to a fieldset element that is not role=”group” would do the same, causing this to break the accessibility tree mapping for that container where the embedded legend would have no effect.

I’ll work on the code for this next week to try out some test cases to share here when ready for testing.

Thanks again,
Bryan




Bryan Garaventa
Principal Accessibility Architect
Level Access, Inc.
Bryan.Garaventa@LevelAccess.com
415.624.2709 (o)
www.LevelAccess.com<http://www.levelaccess.com/>

From: David MacDonald <david100@sympatico.ca>
Sent: Monday, April 15, 2019 11:18 AM
To: James Nurthen <nurthen@adobe.com>
Cc: Bryan Garaventa <bryan.garaventa@levelaccess.com>; Scott O'Hara <sohara@paciellogroup.com>; ARIA Working Group <public-aria@w3.org>
Subject: Re: AccName for fieldset and legend, plus role="group" and role="legend" proposal and questions

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I agree with James
The role=heading is overriding the role of legend in that case, so there is no name for the Group.


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David MacDonald



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On Fri, Apr 12, 2019 at 8:45 PM James Nurthen <nurthen@adobe.com<mailto:nurthen@adobe.com>> wrote:
Bryan,

For your example
        <fieldset>
            <legend role="heading" aria-level="3">Question 1 text?</legend>
            <div> Grouping of 15 radio buttons as possible answers. </div>
        </fieldset>

The group would not have an accessible name.
In 1.2 group gets it’s accessible name from either author or legend.
It does not have an author accessible name.
It does not have a descendent legend role - as the role has been overridden.

Hence it does not have an accessible name.

Regards,
James

James Nurthen  |  Accessibility Engineer  |  Adobe  |  p. 415.832.2734  |  c. 415.987.1918  |  nurthen@adobe.com<mailto:nurthen@adobe.com>



On 4/12/19, 5:36 PM, "Bryan Garaventa" <bryan.garaventa@levelaccess.com<mailto:bryan.garaventa@levelaccess.com>> wrote:

    Thanks,
    I get that part, though it doesn't answer the primary question of whether the given markup should result in an accessible name regardless, since the ARIA spec supports this.

    I'm going to need ARIA WG agreement on this before I can build out a prototype for it.

    Thanks again,
    Bryan


    Bryan Garaventa
    Principal Accessibility Architect
    Level Access, Inc.
    Bryan.Garaventa@LevelAccess.com<mailto:Bryan.Garaventa@LevelAccess.com>
    415.624.2709 (o)
    www.LevelAccess.com<http://www.LevelAccess.com>

    -----Original Message-----
    From: Scott O'Hara <sohara@paciellogroup.com<mailto:sohara@paciellogroup.com>>
    Sent: Friday, April 12, 2019 4:03 PM
    To: Bryan Garaventa <bryan.garaventa@levelaccess.com<mailto:bryan.garaventa@levelaccess.com>>; 'ARIA Working Group' <public-aria@w3.org<mailto:public-aria@w3.org>>
    Subject: Re: AccName for fieldset and legend, plus role="group" and role="legend" proposal and questions

    CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe.


    Hey Bryan,

    Per your last question, if going by the HTML 5.2 spec (https://www.w3.org/TR/html52/sec-forms.html#the-legend-element) the client could add a heading within the legend, which then wouldn't go against the HTML-ARIA spec that doesn't allow for the heading role to be added to the legend element.

    e.g.

    <fieldset>
      <legend>
        <span role=heading aria-level=3>whatever</span>
      </legend>
      <div> with all the radios </div>
    </fieldset>

    Quickly verifying with Chrome, Firefox and Safari that produces "whatever" as the group name, while also exposing the heading.

    The WHATWG HTML spec does not presently note that headings can be children of legends.  Though, that'd make for a good future PR imo...


    Per examples 1-4, I think that all makes sense to me.  Going to think harder about it over the weekend.  But wanted to at least answer the last question rather than put it off.

    Have a nice weekend

    Scott



    On 4/12/19, 6:40 PM, "Bryan Garaventa" <bryan.garaventa@levelaccess.com<mailto:bryan.garaventa@levelaccess.com>> wrote:

        Hi,
        I've been doing some work on the naming computation logic for the legend role, and found some questions having to do with implicit mappings that I need some input on.

        First, I just realized that I've been misspelling the "role parity" project as "role parody", and have filed some likely amusing bugs with this. So, if anyone points this out, this was totally intentional and I knew exactly what I was doing.

        Here is the relevant AccName logic for this if it makes sense.

        1. The fieldset element implicitly maps to role="group", so for the purpose of AccName, both of these are the same.

        2. The legend element will implicitly map to role="legend", so both are the same, and will automatically set the name of either fieldset or role="group" if this is present as the nearest ancestor.

        3. If fieldsets or groups are nested, the name for one group will only be set using the nearest legend within that container, or receive no name if no legend is found within that specific container.

        Example 1: Name for role=group is "Legend"

        <div role="group">
            <div class="wrapper">
                    <div role="legend">Legend</div>
            </div>
        </div>

        Example 2: Name for outer role=group is "", Name for inner role=group is "Legend"

        <div role="group">
            <div class="wrapper">
                    <div role="group">
                            <div role="legend">Legend</div>
                    </div>
            </div>
        </div>

        4. if Legends are nested, only the outer legend will be used to compute the name for the nearest fieldset element or role="group" ancestor.

        Does this make sense? Am I missing anything, or does something else make more sense?

        Secondly, there is some code I was looking at today with a client, which is invalid according to the HTML-ARIA Spec, but it still has to have a valid naming computation regardless, and it doesn't violate the ARIA spec in any way.

        The code is this:

        <fieldset>
            <legend role="heading" aria-level="3">Question 1 text?</legend>
            <div> Grouping of 15 radio buttons as possible answers. </div>
        </fieldset>

        So, what is the fieldset or role="group" name in this case?

        Thanks,
        Bryan


        Bryan Garaventa
        Principal Accessibility Architect
        Level Access, Inc.
        Bryan.Garaventa@LevelAccess.com<mailto:Bryan.Garaventa@LevelAccess.com>
        415.624.2709 (o)
        www.LevelAccess.com<http://www.LevelAccess.com>
Received on Saturday, 20 April 2019 00:20:55 UTC