- From: Thaddeus Cambron <inclusivethinking@gmail.com>
- Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2018 14:08:44 -0700
- To: Steve Faulkner <faulkner.steve@gmail.com>
- Cc: Bryan Garaventa <bryan.garaventa@levelaccess.com>, "tink@tink.uk" <tink@tink.uk>, James Nurthen <nurthen@adobe.com>, "lisa.seeman" <lisa.seeman@zoho.com>, ARIA Working Group <public-aria@w3.org>, Charles LaPierre <charlesl@benetech.org>, public-personalization-tf <public-personalization-tf@w3.org>
- Message-ID: <CAOh2y+9m1=ZY0D8aNh0zr2qoJ3bWQUEwRUsfbkq+bnbysnBW6w@mail.gmail.com>
My understanding from what Michael Cooper was saying is that if we work outside the ARIA working group umbrella we could still work worth with the ARIA WG (just not within the ARIA WG umbrella as an organizational structure) and maintain our ARIA implementation but also extend and mature personalization within additional implementations such as microdata and RDFA.. With this in mind, there is the possibility of a wider reach and wider implementation outside of the "confinement" (not a great word) of the ARIA WG and the ARIA specific implementation. Is this not correct? Best, Thaddeus On Thu, Apr 12, 2018 at 1:28 PM, Steve Faulkner <faulkner.steve@gmail.com> wrote: > this document says many ARIA role plus element combinations are invalid, >> yet they are still mapped to the referenced ARIA role in the accessibility >> API in ways that do not harm accessibility, so the information is incorrect. > > > ARIA in HTML does not define how things map in accessibility APIs it is > designed to protect the integrity of HTML semantics, so saying it is > incorrect is incorrect. > > -- > > Regards > > SteveF > Current Standards Work @W3C > <http://www.paciellogroup.com/blog/2015/03/current-standards-work-at-w3c/> > > On 12 April 2018 at 21:07, Bryan Garaventa <bryan.garaventa@levelaccess. > com> wrote: > >> For the record, I still have concerns about these ARIA HTML mappings, >> because I've been doing extensive testing and they don't reflect what >> accessibility APIs are actually mapping. E.G this document says many ARIA >> role plus element combinations are invalid, yet they are still mapped to >> the referenced ARIA role in the accessibility API in ways that do not harm >> accessibility, so the information is incorrect. >> >> >> Bryan Garaventa >> Accessibility Fellow >> Level Access, Inc. >> Bryan.Garaventa@LevelAccess.com >> 415.624.2709 (o) >> www.LevelAccess.com >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Léonie Watson <tink@tink.uk> >> Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2018 11:50 AM >> To: James Nurthen <nurthen@adobe.com>; lisa.seeman <lisa.seeman@zoho.com>; >> ARIA Working Group <public-aria@w3.org> >> Cc: Charles LaPierre <charlesl@benetech.org>; public-personalization-tf < >> public-personalization-tf@w3.org> >> Subject: Re: alarm bells - was Special meeting this Thursday regarding >> Personalization Semantics >> >> The rules for using ARIA in HTML are defined here: >> https://w3c.github.io/html-aria/ >> >> The Github repo is here: >> https://github.com/w3c/html-aria/ >> >> This is the specification that determines which ARIA attributes may be >> used in HTML, and under what circumstances. >> >> Léonie. >> >> >> On 12/04/2018 19:39, James Nurthen wrote: >> > Lisa, >> > >> > All the examples are already subject to change. In order to be able to >> > use the aui- prefix in HTML there needs to be agreement with the Web >> > Platform WG to allow these attributes in the host language. This >> > discussion needs to happen wherever the Personalization Semantics >> > Specification ends up - whether that is in APA or ARIA. >> > >> > *James Nurthen* | Accessibility Engineer | Adobe | p. >> > 415.832.2734 | c. 415.987.1918 | nurthen@adobe.com >> > >> > *From: *"lisa.seeman" <lisa.seeman@zoho.com> >> > *Date: *Thursday, April 12, 2018 at 11:22 AM >> > *To: *"lisa.seeman" <lisa.seeman@zoho.com>, ARIA Working Group >> > <public-aria@w3.org> >> > *Cc: *Charles LaPierre <charlesl@benetech.org>, >> > public-personalization-tf <public-personalization-tf@w3.org> >> > *Subject: *alarm bells - was Special meeting this Thursday regarding >> > Personalization Semantics >> > *Resent-From: *<public-aria@w3.org> >> > *Resent-Date: *Thursday, April 12, 2018 at 11:22 AM >> > >> > Hi folks >> > >> > I found the last few minuets of the call alarming. Is the implication >> > of moving that all the aria examples given in the specification become >> > invalid? These are all the inline examples! If we leave ARIA is the >> > only way to implement it via microdata and RDFA? >> > >> > Note only is it harder to do in these technologies we have NO >> > implementations, were as we have 6 implementations working on the aria >> > approach - two of which are full consortiums with many members. None >> > of these implementations work with enough context and scoping >> > capabilities (that I know of) to support correct implementation using >> > microdata or rDFA >> > >> > I would guess that this will kill the whole effort and all the work in >> > getting implementation and excitement over what we are doing. >> > >> > All the best >> > >> > Lisa Seeman >> > >> > LinkedIn<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F >> > %2Fil.linkedin.com%2Fin%2Flisaseeman%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cnurthen%40adobe >> > .com%7Cbfc90a16e5094b20cd8108d5a0a2609a%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178de >> > cee1%7C0%7C1%7C636591541660462547&sdata=DW75YRdymmv9%2BFNK0H5cDVmTxuZi >> > 8JnVXAtYZPRHeX0%3D&reserved=0>, >> > Twitter<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F >> > %2Ftwitter.com%2FSeemanLisa&data=02%7C01%7Cnurthen%40adobe.com%7Cbfc90 >> > a16e5094b20cd8108d5a0a2609a%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0 >> > %7C636591541660462547&sdata=ZYa1V8OzH4YoERtl3TcYCVO6ol%2FFYBQ8UhM38rA2 >> > moY%3D&reserved=0> >> > >> > >> > ---- On Tue, 10 Apr 2018 19:55:13 +0300 >> > *lisa.seeman<lisa.seeman@zoho.com>* wrote ---- >> > >> > I should be able to make it >> > >> > All the best >> > >> > Lisa Seeman >> > >> > LinkedIn<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/? >> url=http%3A%2F%2Fil.linkedin.com%2Fin%2Flisaseeman%2F&data= >> 02%7C01%7Cnurthen%40adobe.com%7Cbfc90a16e5094b20cd8108d5a0a2 >> 609a%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C1%7C6365915416 >> 60462547&sdata=DW75YRdymmv9%2BFNK0H5cDVmTxuZi8JnVXAtYZPRHeX0 >> %3D&reserved=0>, >> > >> > Twitter<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F >> > %2Ftwitter.com%2FSeemanLisa&data=02%7C01%7Cnurthen%40adobe.com%7Cbfc90 >> > a16e5094b20cd8108d5a0a2609a%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0 >> > %7C636591541660462547&sdata=ZYa1V8OzH4YoERtl3TcYCVO6ol%2FFYBQ8UhM38rA2 >> > moY%3D&reserved=0> >> > >> > >> > ---- On Tue, 10 Apr 2018 19:41:00 +0300 *Charles >> > LaPierre<**charlesl@benetech.org*<mailto:charlesl@benetech.org >> >*>*wrote >> > ---- >> > >> > Here are the specifics on the ARIA WG Special Meeting >> > >> > WAI-ARIA Working Group - 12 April 2018 >> > >> > Time: 10:00 AM US Pacific, 1:00 PM US Eastern, 17:00 UTC >> > >> > Webex: >> > >> > >> > https://mit.webex.com/mit/j.php?MTID=md27b4a8f598994e81577a285c4ea80c6 >> > <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmit. >> > webex.com%2Fmit%2Fj.php%3FMTID%3Dmd27b4a8f598994e81577a285c4ea80c6&dat >> > a=02%7C01%7Cnurthen%40adobe.com%7Cbfc90a16e5094b20cd8108d5a0a2609a%7Cf >> > a7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C1%7C636591541660472556&sdata=k22 >> > %2B%2FkwYZ1V12xTC9z%2FXBRYpDvJtAWtiqQlNQ8rGoEs%3D&reserved=0> >> > >> > US Toll Number: +1-617-324-0000 >> > >> > Access code: 641 291 851 >> > >> > Mobile Auto Dial: +1-617-324-0000,,,641291851# >> > >> > IRC: >> > irc.w3.org<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/? >> url=http%3A%2F%2Firc.w3.org&data=02%7C01%7Cnurthen%40adobe >> .com%7Cbfc90a16e5094b20cd8108d5a0a2609a%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794 >> aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636591541660472556&sdata=JfVSv1O0X6 >> OjadwOnK8QMlajCUmtxqUZDKkm%2BIgZzUY%3D&reserved=0>, >> > port: 6665, channel: #aria >> > >> > Thanks >> > >> > EOM >> > >> > Charles LaPierre >> > Technical Lead, DIAGRAM and Born Accessible >> > E-mail: charlesl@benetech.org<mailto:charlesl@benetech.org> >> > Twitter: @CLaPierreA11Y >> > Skype: charles_lapierre >> > Phone: 650-600-3301 >> > >> > On Apr 10, 2018, at 9:14 AM, lisa.seeman >> > <lisa.seeman@zoho.com<mailto:lisa.seeman@zoho.com>> wrote: >> > >> > Can you clarify the time and call in details ? >> > >> > All the best >> > >> > Lisa Seeman >> > >> > LinkedIn<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/? >> url=http%3A%2F%2Fil.linkedin.com%2Fin%2Flisaseeman%2F&data= >> 02%7C01%7Cnurthen%40adobe.com%7Cbfc90a16e5094b20cd8108d5a0a2 >> 609a%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C1%7C6365915416 >> 60472556&sdata=u1%2FnQx5cfBvS9pMe13RZwlrpoEzvpSMIDTVChSzgs% >> 2BI%3D&reserved=0>, >> > >> > Twitter<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F >> > %2Ftwitter.com%2FSeemanLisa&data=02%7C01%7Cnurthen%40adobe.com%7Cbfc90 >> > a16e5094b20cd8108d5a0a2609a%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0 >> > %7C636591541660472556&sdata=ovVD9lOdeGQ8jmmdytRd3IioaD0WljpUGJ9%2FYiaB >> > 0GI%3D&reserved=0> >> > >> > >> > ---- On Tue, 10 Apr 2018 18:34:51 +0300 >> > *Ku<**jku@illinois.edu*<mailto:jku@illinois.edu>*>*wrote >> > ---- >> > >> > +1 I will attend. – JaEun Jemma Ku >> > >> > *From:*Thaddeus Cambron >> > >> > <inclusivethinking@gmail.com<mailto:inclusivethinking@gmail.com>> >> > >> > *Sent:* Monday, April 9, 2018 4:57 PM >> > *To:* Joanmarie Diggs >> > <jdiggs@igalia.com<mailto:jdiggs@igalia.com>> >> > *Cc:* ARIA Working Group >> > <public-aria@w3.org<mailto:public-aria@w3.org>>; >> > lisa.seeman >> > <lisa.seeman@zoho.com<mailto:lisa.seeman@zoho.com>>; >> > Charles LaPierre >> > <charlesl@benetech.org<mailto:charlesl@benetech.org>> >> > *Subject:* Re: [RSVP] Special meeting this Thursday >> > regarding Personalization Semantics >> > >> > +1 - Will attend - Thaddeus Cambron >> > >> > On Mon, Apr 9, 2018 at 2:28 PM, Joanmarie Diggs >> > <jdiggs@igalia.com<mailto:jdiggs@igalia.com>> wrote: >> > >> > Hey all. >> > >> > As those of you who attended last week's meeting are >> > aware, we are >> > considering moving the Personalization Task Force >> > and its deliverables >> > out of ARIA and into APA. This is still being >> > discussed by the >> > Personalization Task Force. See the mailing list >> > thread opened with this >> > message [1], along with the minutes from today's >> > Personalization >> > Semantics Task Force meeting [2]. >> > >> > Towards the end of today's meeting, in which some >> > task force members >> > were absent and during which no consensus was >> > reached, I proposed the >> > possibility of doing a WBS Survey to determine >> > people's positions and >> > hopefully get closer to identifying a way forward >> > that we all can live >> > with. Lisa pointed out that people shouldn't vote >> > that have not heard >> > both sides. I think her observation is quite >> > reasonable and that before >> > the ARIA Working Group vote in such a survey, we owe >> > it to Lisa to give >> > her sufficient time to present her case directly to >> > the Working Group. >> > For this reason, we are proposing to make this >> > week's ARIA concall a >> > one-topic meeting, namely Personalization Semantics. >> > >> > The reason for the "[RSVP]" tag is that we want to >> > ensure that all of >> > the regular attendees, along with anyone else with >> > an interest in this >> > matter, will be at the meeting to hear Lisa's >> > presentation. >> > >> > Thank you in advance for your response! >> > --joanie >> > >> > [1] >> > https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public- >> personalization-tf/2018Apr/0001.html<https://na01. >> safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists. >> w3.org%2FArchives%2FPublic%2Fpublic-personalization-tf% >> 2F2018Apr%2F0001.html&data=02%7C01%7Cnurthen%40adobe.com%7Cb >> fc90a16e5094b20cd8108d5a0a2609a%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178 >> decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636591541660472556&sdata=%2FOXCfTHhZ6AMoox3 >> wPS7SA87zj2n9xaAbsTXy8Zzf0Q%3D&reserved=0> >> > [2] >> > >> > https://www.w3.org/2018/04/09-personalization-minutes.html<https://na0 >> > 1.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2F201 >> > 8%2F04%2F09-personalization-minutes.html&data=02%7C01%7Cnurthen%40adob >> > e.com%7Cbfc90a16e5094b20cd8108d5a0a2609a%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178d >> > ecee1%7C0%7C0%7C636591541660472556&sdata=ihPa7Iv82h7DrNe4mXNHQQcA4%2BD >> > %2B2a0aSVcI3F4XxwY%3D&reserved=0> >> > >> > >> > >> >> -- >> @LeonieWatson @tink@toot.cafe Carpe diem >> >> >
Received on Thursday, 12 April 2018 21:09:11 UTC