RE: UIA platform testing

And just FYI - Safari update is live as well on that page.

-----Original Message-----
From: Bogdan Brinza 
Sent: Thursday, May 25, 2017 12:29 PM
To: 'Joanmarie Diggs' <jdiggs@igalia.com>; Matt Garrish <matt.garrish@gmail.com>; 'Siegman, Tzviya - Hoboken' <tsiegman@wiley.com>; 'Rich Schwerdtfeger' <richschwer@gmail.com>
Cc: John Jansen <John.Jansen@microsoft.com>; 'ARIA Working Group' <public-aria@w3.org>
Subject: RE: UIA platform testing

The entry is live: https://developer.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoft-edge/platform/status/digitalpublishingaccessibilityapimappings/

Thank you for the note. 

I didn't specify any information beyond Edge in the change - so you might note that other browsers are not listed as supported. I'll add your additional information about Safari based on your feedback. As for WebKitGtk - we don't list information about this browser on status page for any entry.

-----Original Message-----
From: Joanmarie Diggs [mailto:jdiggs@igalia.com]
Sent: Thursday, May 25, 2017 10:05 AM
To: Bogdan Brinza <bbrinza@microsoft.com>; Matt Garrish <matt.garrish@gmail.com>; 'Siegman, Tzviya - Hoboken' <tsiegman@wiley.com>; 'Rich Schwerdtfeger' <richschwer@gmail.com>
Cc: John Jansen <John.Jansen@microsoft.com>; 'ARIA Working Group' <public-aria@w3.org>
Subject: Re: UIA platform testing

Your status entry is inaccurate. We are 100% passing in Safari.
WebKitGtk (which is not listed) is also 100% passing.

On 05/25/2017 07:01 PM, Bogdan Brinza wrote:
> As I've mentioned this work is on our backlog.
> 
>  
> 
> To make it more transparent I've added public status entry (on
> status.modern.ie) for this and will share the link as it's available.
> 
>  
> 
> We don't have further timeline/version beyond this information.
> 
>  
> 
> *From:*Matt Garrish [mailto:matt.garrish@gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Thursday, May 25, 2017 9:58 AM
> *To:* 'Siegman, Tzviya - Hoboken' <tsiegman@wiley.com>; 'Rich 
> Schwerdtfeger' <richschwer@gmail.com>
> *Cc:* Bogdan Brinza <bbrinza@microsoft.com>; 'Joanmarie Diggs'
> <jdiggs@igalia.com>; John Jansen <John.Jansen@microsoft.com>; 'ARIA 
> Working Group' <public-aria@w3.org>
> *Subject:* RE: UIA platform testing
> 
>  
> 
> If it helps this discussion, EPUB inherits ARIA support through HTML, 
> so when HTML supports ARIA 1.1 then so will EPUB. As far as I'm aware, 
> that will take the release of 5.2. Inheritance of new versions of HTML 
> is automatic in EPUB now, though, so there won't be a delay in use 
> (except perhaps from validation).
> 
>  
> 
> Publishers are beginning to include the publishing roles in epub 
> content (epubcheck allows any values). Having them exposed would be 
> ideal, but isn't a requirement yet.
> 
>  
> 
> Matt
> 
>  
> 
> *From:*Siegman, Tzviya - Hoboken [mailto:tsiegman@wiley.com]
> *Sent:* May 25, 2017 12:16 PM
> *To:* Rich Schwerdtfeger <richschwer@gmail.com 
> <mailto:richschwer@gmail.com>>
> *Cc:* Bogdan Brinza <bbrinza@microsoft.com 
> <mailto:bbrinza@microsoft.com>>; Joanmarie Diggs <jdiggs@igalia.com 
> <mailto:jdiggs@igalia.com>>; John Jansen <John.Jansen@microsoft.com 
> <mailto:John.Jansen@microsoft.com>>; ARIA Working Group 
> <public-aria@w3.org <mailto:public-aria@w3.org>>
> *Subject:* RE: UIA platform testing
> 
>  
> 
> I am not sure why it matters, as this vocabulary has benefits beyond 
> EPUB. Some publishers have adopted it already (Wiley included), as 
> Matt and Shane's testing proves. Inclusion in EPUB was not a 
> contingency nor exit criteria.
> 
>  
> 
> The EPUB 3 CG [1] has taken up EPUB maintenance. EPUB 4 is one of the 
> planned deliverables of the Publishing WG. That charter is not yet 
> finalized, but you can see the current draft at [2].
> 
>  
> 
> [1] https://www.w3.org/community/epub3/
> 
> [2] https://w3c.github.io/dpubwg-charter/
> 
>  
> 
> *Tzviya Siegman*
> 
> Information Standards Lead
> 
> Wiley
> 
> 201-748-6884
> 
> tsiegman@wiley.com <mailto:tsiegman@wiley.com>
> 
>  
> 
> *From:*Rich Schwerdtfeger [mailto:richschwer@gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Thursday, May 25, 2017 12:05 PM
> *To:* Siegman, Tzviya - Hoboken
> *Cc:* Bogdan Brinza; Joanmarie Diggs; John Jansen; ARIA Working Group
> *Subject:* Re: UIA platform testing
> 
>  
> 
> I see. What is the timeline/target version number for that given that 
> so many people invested time in working on it for the digital 
> publishing community? Also, was aria-details included or is that also 
> on hold for this next release?
> 
>  
> 
> Rich Schwerdtfeger
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>     On May 24, 2017, at 1:02 PM, Siegman, Tzviya - Hoboken
>     <tsiegman@wiley.com <mailto:tsiegman@wiley.com>> wrote:
> 
>      
> 
>     Just a point of clarification about EPUB. DPUB-ARIA is not actually
>     part of the EPUB specs because it was not finished in time for the
>     last release of EPUB.  However, DPUB-ARIA will be a part of future
>     releases of EPUB and Web Publications.
> 
>      
> 
>      
> 
>      
> 
>     *Tzviya Siegman*
> 
>     Information Standards Lead
> 
>     Wiley
> 
>     201-748-6884
> 
>     tsiegman@wiley.com <mailto:tsiegman@wiley.com>
> 
>      
> 
>     *From:* Rich Schwerdtfeger [mailto:richschwer@gmail.com] 
>     *Sent:* Wednesday, May 24, 2017 12:51 PM
>     *To:* Bogdan Brinza
>     *Cc:* Joanmarie Diggs; John Jansen; ARIA Working Group; Siegman,
>     Tzviya - Hoboken
>     *Subject:* Re: UIA platform testing
> 
>      
> 
>     Hi Bogdan,
> 
>      
> 
>     I believe that your browser platform now supports EPUB documents.
>     Given that this is part of EPUB would you not want to fully support
>     the specification or is partial support acceptable for Microsoft?
> 
>      
> 
>     Incidentally, this is the current publisher support for
>     ARIA-EPUB: 
> https://github.com/mattgarrish/test-results/blob/ccff0e25121d8c928b890
> a23c38aece0a1377c28/dpub-aria/README.md
> 
>      
> 
>      
> 
>     Rich
> 
>      
> 
>      
> 
>      
> 
>         On May 24, 2017, at 12:10 PM, Bogdan Brinza
>         <bbrinza@microsoft.com <mailto:bbrinza@microsoft.com>> wrote:
> 
>          
> 
>         Appreciate the input - we currently have no plans to implement
>         this mapping. I would agree with you that mapping itself doesn't
>         sound too costly, however additional costs we'll need to drive
>         for proper implementation like internal validations, regression
>         protection, localization start to add up quickly.
> 
>         More importantly, while cost is an important factor in planning
>         discussions, this is not the only factor. We're typically driven
>         by partner, developer, customer and internal teams' requirements
>         more than just cost and at this point there is very low demand
>         for this feature.
> 
>         We'll keep this under consideration, but I won't expect we'll
>         land this in time to justify holding off adding Edge results.
> 
>         If you'd want to list any address in the implementation report -
>         please use my address: Bogdan Brinza, bbrinza@microsoft.com
>         <mailto:bbrinza@microsoft.com>.
> 
>         Hope this helps!
> 
>         -----Original Message-----
>         From: Joanmarie Diggs [mailto:jdiggs@igalia.com] 
>         Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2017 4:14 AM
>         To: Bogdan Brinza <bbrinza@microsoft.com
>         <mailto:bbrinza@microsoft.com>>
>         Cc: John Jansen <John.Jansen@microsoft.com
>         <mailto:John.Jansen@microsoft.com>>; Rich Schwerdtfeger
>         <richschwer@gmail.com <mailto:richschwer@gmail.com>>; ARIA
>         Working Group <public-aria@w3.org <mailto:public-aria@w3.org>>;
>         Siegman, Tzviya - Hoboken <tsiegman@wiley.com
>         <mailto:tsiegman@wiley.com>>
>         Subject: Re: UIA platform testing
> 
>         Hi Bogdan.
> 
>         Regarding DPub AAM: Are you planning to implement them any time
>         soon?
>         Before you say "no"...
> 
>         My guess (having done the implementation for WebKitGtk) is that
>         the implementation will be pretty quick and easy to do in Edge.
>         It appears the mappings for the roles on your platform are all:
> 
>         * Control Type: Text (with the exception of doc-cover, which is
>         Image)
>         * Localized Control Type: <rolename with the "doc-" removed>
>         * If a landmark, also:
>          - Landmark Type: Custom
>          - Localized Landmark Type: <rolename with the "doc-" removed>
> 
>         So while officially -- and for the publishing industry -- it's
>         39 roles, for implementations it's more like a handful of roles
>         and 39 localizable strings. Low-hanging fruit, in other words....
> 
>         If you think your team might be able to pull off the
>         implementation before too long, we can hold off on adding
>         results for Edge. Otherwise, I can add an Edge column
>         to https://w3c.github.io/test-results/dpub-aam/all.html, showing
>         all the mappings as "FAIL." If you'd like me to do the latter,
>         what address(es) would you like me to use
>         in https://w3c.github.io/test-results/dpub-aam/#index-of-implementations-in-reports?
> 
>         --joanie
> 
>         On 05/24/2017 01:33 AM, Bogdan Brinza wrote:
> 
>         Few notes:
> 
>         - DPUB AAM - we currently don't implement those mappings, so
>         this part 
>         can be skipped for EdgeHTML
>         - Things similar to "StyleId_Heading2" - this is about
>         TextPattern and can be verified in Inspect.exe using Text
>         Pattern Explorer (available on the <body> element).
> 
>         -----Original Message-----
>         From: Joanmarie Diggs [mailto:jdiggs@igalia.com]
>         Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2017 10:24 AM
>         To: John Jansen <John.Jansen@microsoft.com
>         <mailto:John.Jansen@microsoft.com>>; Bogdan Brinza 
>         <bbrinza@microsoft.com <mailto:bbrinza@microsoft.com>>; Rich
>         Schwerdtfeger <richschwer@gmail.com <mailto:richschwer@gmail.com>>
>         Cc: Shane McCarron <shane@spec-ops.io
>         <mailto:shane@spec-ops.io>>; ARIA Working Group 
>         <public-aria@w3.org <mailto:public-aria@w3.org>>
>         Subject: Re: UIA platform testing
> 
>         Hi John.
> 
>         <cough>Welcome to my world</cough>. ;)
> 
>         If you go through the wiki history, you will find quite a few 
>         instances of my correcting statements. Automated tools have proven 
>         handy in this
>         regard: They flag a failure, you look into it and realize the
>         bug is 
>         not in the implementation or your ATTA, but in the testable
>         statement 
>         itself. :-/
> 
>         Before you reach this as your definitive conclusion, it's
>         important to check what is stated in the Core AAM, because I've
>         also discovered bugs there (i.e. the testable statement is
>         correct given what is in the Core AAM, which is wrong -- or at
>         least highly suspect). If the bug is in the Core AAM, please
>         file an issue against the spec. Bonus points for providing a
>         patch which fixes it, should time permit and the fix be obvious.
> 
>         But if in the end you are sure the fault lies 100% in the
>         testable statement, and it's a statement for UIA, please just
>         edit the wiki to reflect the correct assertion.
> 
>         Thanks!
>         --joanie
> 
>         On 05/23/2017 07:05 PM, John Jansen wrote:
> 
>         Thanks, Bogdan.
> 
> 
> 
>         We have started testing, and I was actually going to send mail
>         today 
>         regarding some issues we've found with the tests that make it a bit 
>         more challenging that I think it needs to be. I'm curious how the 
>         automation system worked around these:
> 
> 
> 
>         1. Simple typo inconsistency: "Control Type", "control type",
>            "ControlType" and "Localized Control Type",
>         "localizedControlType",
>            "LocalizedControlType".
>             1. This is manageable, but makes understanding the tests 
>         challenging
> 
>         *Q: Is there anyone going through to make these consistent? I guess 
>         this is the result of multiple people writing test
> statements.*
> 
> 
> 
>         2. TestCases looking for aria-properties, ask in lots of
>         different ways
>             1. Some tests say
> 
>                                                                       i.
>             
>         <testelement> /PROPERTY/ "AriaProperties" /IS/ "*_hidden:_*true"
> 
>                                                                     ii.     
>         <testelement> /PROPERTY /"AriaProperties*_.hidden_*" /IS/ "true"
> 
>                                                                   iii.     
>         <testelement> /PROPERTY/ "hidden" /IS /"true" (and just assumes you 
>         know it wants ariaproperties)
> 
>                                                                   iv.     
>         Might be more.
> 
>             2. Some more ambiguous tests ask
> 
>                                                                       i.
>             
>         <testelement> /PROPERTY /"DataGrid.ColumnCount" /IS /"4" and
>         seems to 
>         really be wanting "AriaProperties.ColCount == 4"
> 
>                     1. The element in inspect.exe shows no other fields
>         showing
>                        value "4" so it must be AriaProperties.ColCount
>                     2. I don't know what DataGrid has to do with anything
>             2. This is hard to handle... and probably should be fixed on
>         the test
>                side. 
> 
>         *Q: Should we just log bugs in the repo?*
> 
> 
> 
>         3. There is an entire family of tests asking for Pattern support, in
>            different ways seemingly:
>             1. <testelement> /PROPERTY /"controlPatterns" /CONTAINS
>                /"*ExpandCollapse*"
>             2. <testelement> /CONTROL PATTERN /"*ExpandCollapse*"
>         /EXISTS/ "false"
> 
>         *Q: is anyone working on this?*
> 
> 
> 
>         4. Some I cannot figure out what it's trying to verify at all,
>            inspect.exe shows nothing with a similar name, nothing with a
>         value
>            matching the assertion value.
>             1. <testelement> /PROPERTY /"StyleId_Heading2" /IS/ "present" -
>                inspect shows nothing similar to StyleId_heading2.
>             2. Some are more ambiguous, some are less ambiguous.
> 
>         *Q: Not sure what to do with these types of issues. What are your
>         thoughts?*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>         *From:* Bogdan Brinza
>         *Sent:* Monday, May 22, 2017 10:02 PM
>         *To:* Rich Schwerdtfeger <richschwer@gmail.com
>         <mailto:richschwer@gmail.com>>; John Jansen 
>         <John.Jansen@microsoft.com <mailto:John.Jansen@microsoft.com>>
>         *Cc:* Shane McCarron <shane@spec-ops.io
>         <mailto:shane@spec-ops.io>>; Joanmarie Diggs 
>         <jdiggs@igalia.com <mailto:jdiggs@igalia.com>>; ARIA Working
>         Group <public-aria@w3.org <mailto:public-aria@w3.org>>
>         *Subject:* Re: UIA platform testing
> 
> 
> 
>         Adding John who drives UIA testing on our end.
> 
>         ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>         -
>         --
> 
>         *From:*Rich Schwerdtfeger <richschwer@gmail.com
>         <mailto:richschwer@gmail.com> 
>         <mailto:richschwer@gmail.com>>
>         *Sent:* Monday, May 22, 2017 12:28:01 PM
>         *To:* Bogdan Brinza
>         *Cc:* Shane McCarron; Joanmarie Diggs; ARIA Working Group
>         *Subject:* UIA platform testing
> 
> 
> 
>         Hi Bogdan,
> 
> 
> 
>         Shane fixed the bug in the ATTA to enable manual testing to
>         proceed. 
> 
> 
> 
>         How close are you to being able to start manual testing?
> 
> 
> 
>         Have you updated the wiki to reflect the UIA Core AAM changes
>         you made?
> 
> 
> 
>         Regards,
> 
>         Rich
> 
> 
> 
>         Rich Schwerdtfeger
> 
>  
>

Received on Thursday, 25 May 2017 19:49:50 UTC