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Minutes from 12 January teleconference

From: Janina Sajka <janina@rednote.net>
Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2017 14:04:52 -0500
To: W3C WAI ARIA <public-aria@w3.org>
Message-ID: <20170112190452.GB2069@opera.rednote.net>
Minutes from the ARIA teleconference of 12 January are provided below as text.
They're also available as hypertext at:

http://www.w3.org/2017/01/12-aria-minutes.html


   W3C

                                                                                   - DRAFT -

                                                      Accessible Rich Internet Applications Working Group Teleconference

12 Jan 2017

   Agenda

   See also: IRC log

Attendees

   Present
          Joanmarie_Diggs, Rich_Schwerdtfeger, MichaelC, Janina, JF, Joseph_Scheuhammer, Léonie, matt_king

   Regrets
   Chair
          Rich

   Scribe
          Janina

Contents

     * Topics
         1. Updates
         2. Testing & Testable Statements
         3. Embedded Content for ARIA 1.2
         4. Embed Element
         5. Next Week
     * Summary of Action Items
     * Summary of Resolutions
     _________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

   <Rich> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-aria/2017Jan/0023.html

   <Rich> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-aria/2017Jan/0023.html

   <scribe> scribe: Janina

Updates

   rs: Rich will do core HTML mappings review

Testing & Testable Statements

   rs: We're stuck! Between IA2 and UIA bridges

   jd: Don't know the details, working on ATK+AT-SPI2 and have started, just barely though, on the ATTA for AXAPI

   rs: Believe most are in Firefox
   ... Don't know about Edge
   ... Will start filling in the test harness
   ... Would appreciate assistance from the group!

   <Rich> https://www.w3.org/wiki/ARIA_1.1_Testable_Statements

   rs: Anything else we can do accelerate the auto test harness?

   jd: Written out testable statements would really help
   ...

   rs: Believe most JFW is done
   ... Need to check with Domenic re Chrome

   mk: If we have questions re specific tests, where should we discuss that?
   ... Mailing list? Git?
   ... I've questions about grid
   ... unclear whose testing problems I'm seeing fall into ... ARIA? HTML?
   ... Role=grid on table, and nothing on cells ...

   rs: So what does a td convey?

   mk: Hard for me to tell ...

   mk Working off of observed screen reader behavior

   jd: I can examine, if you like. Should be similar/same

   mk: So, wondering whether we should be testing propogation
   ... Seems grid is unique
   ... No other ARIA role does anything like that

   rs: May not be just browser, may be AT

   <clown> https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#role-map-gridcell

   jd: IA2 has only role=cell

   <clown> https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#role-map-cell

   jd: Believe we need testable statements for anything that has changed since 1.0, including changed behavior

   stefan: Wondering about Edge support ... Do we have? What's situation with JFW plus Edge

   rs: We will test Edge, we have mappings
   ... Whether JFW supports Edge isn't our department
   ... NOte that Edge does not expose DOM
   ... As to where to ask -- list is OK, and on the call is OK.

   <Rich> https://www.w3.org/TR/html51/semantics-embedded-content.html#the-picture-element

Embedded Content for ARIA 1.2

   rs: We can go through these, but first some examples ....

   <Rich> <style>

   <Rich> img {display: block; margin: 0 auto;}

   <Rich> </style>

   <Rich> <picture>

   <Rich> <source

   <Rich> media="(min-width: 650px)"

   <Rich> srcset="images/kitten-stretching.png">

   <Rich> <source

   <Rich> media="(min-width: 465px)"

   <Rich> srcset="images/kitten-sitting.png">

   <Rich> <img

   <Rich> src="images/kitten-curled.png"

   <Rich> alt="a cute kitten">

   <Rich> </picture>

   rs: Note the multiple source support
   ... Best fit wins
   ... img is the fallback
   ... But, we don't want to map multiple sources -- It's only one image

   jd: So what's exposed to AT should be the rendered image

   rs: Wondering where alt is ...

   mc: Believe it's from the fallback img
   ... So don't need new ARIA feature

   rs: Need to decide whether we expose Picture and Source

   <clown> https://w3c.github.io/html-aam/#el-picture (no corresponding aria role)

   mc: Suspect you'd map Picture
   ... So authoring error if img fallback with alt not provided

   mk: Would no alt on imate and ARIOA-Label on Picture be illegal?

   <JF> +1 to Matt's suggestion - aria-label on the <picture> element

   <MichaelC> mc: HTML mappings needs to say that img embedded in picture isnÂŽt mapped

   rs: What happens with tab index on a descendent

   mc: Should take the parent

   <MichaelC> because the picture itself is mapped to img

   mc: Still not sure we've anything to do here
   ... We're not in a special situation here

   rs: Question is what to convey to user

   <MichaelC> the text alternative algorithm should say get text alt from embedded img (preferred) but otherwise from aria-label on picture or something

   jd: I believe we map to role=img

   jn: Can't you also have text?

   mc: If yes, could add to accessible mapping calculation

   js: NO,

   mc: So all HTML AAM, and not our spec

   <clown> https://w3c.github.io/html-aam/#el-picture

   mc: Note AAM isn't complete, and this issue may not have been considered

   js: Yes, we're asked to review

   rs: Not sure what for tab index
   ... ARIA attribs on Picture allowed, but not mapped

   js: No, not according to AAM

   <Rich> Allowed ARIA state and property attributes:

   <Rich> Global aria-* attributes

   <Rich> DOM interface:

   js: Maybe I'm looking at old

   <clown> https://www.w3.org/TR/html-aria/#allowed-aria-roles-states-and-properties

   rs: Not sure what with focus

   <clown> https://w3c.github.io/html-aria/#allowed-aria-roles-states-and-properties

   mc: Suspect it's underdefined

   rs: Map Picture to Img

   mc: NO, we do nothing
   ... Nothing to do in ARIA, but much to do with the AAM, which is not us

   rs: Assume content below picture, one of which is the image. Don't want to map both
   ... In a web component?

   mc: Don't know, but it's all auto

   rs: Unclear how this is used in a component

   mk: Don't get the difference

   mc: Believe a component doing anything fance will be script based, and so this is up to the scripting

   rs: So, an inconsistency in the mapping ...

   mc: Noting Picture is a grouping, you're only picking one image, and how the alt gets to the user is underdefined
   ... Don't think we need to go to this level of situation handling

   rs: So we have to identify this inconsistency to Web Platforms

   jf: Wonders what happens when fallback is missing

   mc: We can't fix all errors

   jf: Does it still end up something like image1765.jpg?

   mc: That's not specified, of course

   rs: Wondering where my issue is ...

   js: Core AAM

   <clown> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-aria/2017Jan/0006.html

   js: Above contains links on where to file issues

   <Rich> ACTION: Rich As part of HTML-AAM review: picture maps to img. name computation starts with aria-labelling on picture followed by alt text on the embedded img
   and last would be the URL of the chosen source. The image child is not mapped [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2017/01/12-aria-minutes.html#action01]

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-2132 - As part of html-aam review: picture maps to img. name computation starts with aria-labelling on picture followed by alt text on the
   embedded img and last would be the url of the chosen source. the image child is not mapped [on Richard Schwerdtfeger - due 2017-01-19].

   <Rich> action-2132?

   <trackbot> action-2132 -- Richard Schwerdtfeger to As part of html-aam review: picture maps to img. name computation starts with aria-labelling on picture followed by
   alt text on the embedded img and last would be the url of the chosen source. the image child is not mapped -- due 2017-01-19 -- OPEN

   <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/2132

   rs: Continuing -- Iframes ... Do we need?

   mc: Unsure

   rs: Don't believe we need

   <clown> https://w3c.github.io/html-aam/#el-iframe

   mc: Suspect this would now be scripted

   mk: Think no corresponding role is perfect, we want iframe to do nothing. Alternative is none

   mc: Need access to content

   mk: None preserves, and anything inside the iframe

   jn: Can navigate by iframes

   rs: Could be confusing in a mashup

   jn: Yes, sometimes

   mk: Agree we don't need a new role for it
   ... Perhaps mapping to "none" might be a worthy discussion with AT
   ... Maybe if we have title -- just like we treat section

   jd: Are we pruning iframes from the tree?
   ... Just want to avoid nested doc frames

   rs: Leave as is?

   jd: Yes, no ARIA role, but other expose may be useful

   RESOLUTION: No new role for Iframes in ARIA

Embed Element

   <clown> https://w3c.github.io/html-aam/#el-embed

   jd: Believe we've morphed the application role recently
   ... Believe Embed is like 1.1 Application -- Custom control like

   <Rich> https://www.w3.org/TR/html51/semantics-embedded-content.html#the-embed-element

   <Rich> Allowed ARIA role attribute values:

   <Rich> application, document or img or presentation.

   rs: Don't believe there's anything for us to do that adds value
   ... Believe we have what we need

   RESOLUTION: No new role needed for Embed

   mc: Also for Object?

   rs: Yes

   RESOLUTION: No ARIA role needed for Object either

Next Week

   rs: Pick up with Video and Audio

   RESOLUTION: No ARIA role for Param element

   https://www.disneymoviesanywhere.com/support

   rs: So, for next week.

Summary of Action Items

   [NEW] ACTION: Rich As part of HTML-AAM review: picture maps to img. name computation starts with aria-labelling on picture followed by alt text on the embedded img
   and last would be the URL of the chosen source. The image child is not mapped [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2017/01/12-aria-minutes.html#action01]

Summary of Resolutions

    1. No new role for Iframes in ARIA
    2. No new role needed for Embed
    3. No ARIA role needed for Object either
    4. No ARIA role for Param element

   [End of minutes]
     _________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Found Scribe: Janina
Present: Joanmarie_Diggs Rich_Schwerdtfeger MichaelC Janina JF Joseph_Scheuhammer Léonie matt_king


-- 

Janina Sajka,	Phone:	+1.443.300.2200
			sip:janina@asterisk.rednote.net
		Email:	janina@rednote.net

Linux Foundation Fellow
Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup:	http://a11y.org

The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI)
Chair, Accessible Platform Architectures	http://www.w3.org/wai/apa
Received on Thursday, 12 January 2017 19:05:20 UTC

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