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[Minutes] 6 October 2016 ARIA Working Group Meeting

From: Shane McCarron <shane@spec-ops.io>
Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2016 13:13:16 -0500
Message-ID: <CAJdbnOB+mPqYP=MgW21DmE2sag3Wv-9qzfY8zQdY1jmyZ_aq7Q@mail.gmail.com>
To: ARIA <public-aria@w3.org>
The minutes from this meeting are at
https://www.w3.org/2016/10/06-aria-minutes.html

A text version is below:

W3C
- DRAFT -

Accessible Rich Internet Applications Working Group Teleconference

06 Oct 2016

See also: IRC log

Attendees

Present
ShaneM, Joanmarie_Diggs, Joseph_Scheuhammer, Rich_Schwerdtfeger
Regrets
Chair
Rich
Scribe
ShaneM
Contents

Topics
ARIA 1.1 Readiness
ARIA 2.0 Triage and requirements
Testing
Summary of Action Items
Summary of Resolutions
<scribe> ScribeNick: ShaneM
ARIA 1.1 Readiness

Rich: We have the mappings that we were lacking.
... we are still missing some things to tables but I don't see any
modifications to the ARIA 1.1 spec.
... can anyone think of any blockers for CR.

<clown>
https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#ariaErrorMessage
joanie: I dont anticipate aria-details and aria-errormessage being a
problem. Mappings are done, but the APIs for my platform are not yet done.
They should be next week.
... I don't know if they are in IA2.

Rich: they are in the IDL but not yet implemented.
... I have not yet seen keyboardtext... key shortcut?

joanie: I don't remember

<clown>
https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#ariaKeyshortcuts
clown: the current mapping exposes it in an object attribute.
... it is definitely mapped in IA2

Rich: we may need some new interfaces for tables. I was talking with NVDA
about that. Rows/columns + indexes and counts might be a little confused
still.

<Rich> https://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/products/17
Rich: I have cleanup spec nits... needs to be done

joanie: I think it is done

<clown> issue-695
<trackbot> issue-695 -- Clean up nits in the ARIA specification -- open
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/issues/695
Rich: then close it.

<clown> action-1567
<trackbot> action-1567 -- Joanmarie Diggs to Fix inconsistencies in linking
and styles for properties -- due 2016-05-26 -- OPEN
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1567
<clown> actoin-2082
<clown> action-2082
<trackbot> action-2082 -- Michael Cooper to Investigate having regular
links to apg for each aria feature -- due 2016-09-16 -- OPEN
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/2082
Rich: The links to APG... we know itis not ready.
... do we need to do something before we make it to PR?

MichaelC: we can do that if we put a note in saying we intend to add them.

clown: A link for every role and a link for every aria-* ?

MichaelC: I don't know that we will have that before Rec. I don't think we
are going to be in a position to do that in the ARIA 1.1 timeframe.

Rich: I can move that to 1.2...

MichaelC: That seems okay.

Rich: Okay, i have moved it.

<Zakim> joanie, you wanted to blame illness and say the nits still need a
quick find and replace. So reopened and will do next week (if not tomorrow)
<clown> action-1719
<trackbot> action-1719 -- Michael Cooper to Draft aria 1.1 cr exit criteria
-- due 2015-10-16 -- PENDINGREVIEW
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1719
MichaelC: this becomes top priority now to start staging

<clown>
https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#ariaKeyshortcuts
Rich: do you need one more week of tweaking?
... Do I need to put a link in?

MichaelC: Some text abotu status needs to eb added.

Shane points out that Joanie wants to edit nits

MichaelC: As long as it is editorial I don't care

joanie: It is really is editorial. Nothing that should block CR

PROPOSED RESOLUTION: Take ARIA 1.1 and advance to CR with correction to
minor nits by Joanie.

+1

<Rich> +1
<joanie> +1000
<Stefan> +1
<clown> +1
RESOLUTION: Take ARIA 1.1 and advance to CR with correction to minor nits
by Joanie.
... michael finds GIT pointer

<MichaelC>
https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/07b7c8c65add171a0ba19234489aec4fb4b811ea/aria/aria.html
Rich: I believe the aria-dpub module can be published as CR. Need data from
Tzviya

<clown> https://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/products/28
Rich: we have mappings for all platforms except UIA

<clown> ^ No issues nor actions for DPUB-AAM
MichaelC: are they implemented yet?

Rich: no - but I know that people are willing to implement

MichaelC: We cant publish until we know that we can exit CR.

Rich: I think we are really close for that. I will send it off to FF and
Google and point out to Google that most of redium based readers are based
upon chrome.
... I need to know from tzviya who is going to implement within dpub
industry. she told us once

ARIA 2.0 Triage and requirements

<Rich> https://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/wiki/ARIA_2.0_Issue_Triage
<Rich> https://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/issues/507
aria-expanded on a row...

<clown> issue-507
<trackbot> issue-507 -- Row role says aria-expanded can be used in a
treegrid but not a grid; this can lead to author error; should clarify for
authors, conformance checkers, etc. -- open
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/issues/507
<clown>
https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/07b7c8c65add171a0ba19234489aec4fb4b811ea/aria/aria.html#aria-expanded
Rich: I don't think this has really been an issue,. Let me look at the spec.
... I don't know why this would add to confusion.

clown: I am looking at aria-expanded and it is inherited into row.

<MichaelC> https://www.w3.org/2012/04/30-pf-minutes#item12
<MichaelC> issue-507: https://www.w3.org/2012/04/30-pf-minutes#item12
<trackbot> Notes added to issue-507 Row role says aria-expanded can be used
in a treegrid but not a grid; this can lead to author error; should clarify
for authors, conformance checkers, etc..
<Rich> his is not the case for an ordinary table or grid, in which the
aria-expanded attribute is not present.
<Rich> In a treegrid, authors MAY mark rows as expandable, using the
aria-expanded attribute to indicate the present status. This is not the
case for an ordinary table or grid, in which the aria-expanded attribute is
not present.
Rich: we have it as an inherited attribute.
... but isnt the fact that it is called out here... do we need to put
something in the table to make it clear this is only for treegrids?
... should we put this in 1.2? It is just cleanup

MichaelC: I think there are some weirdnesses like this in the spec. Does
the group want to live with them or try to clean them up?

Rich: Do people want to close this?

joanie: I dont think this counts as a 1.2 verbiage problem.

Rich: okay, so you think this is enough text as it stands?
... reads text.

joanie: I think that is fine.

Rich: I am heading "close"... any objection?

<clown> issue-512
<trackbot> issue-512 -- Clean up relatedConcept references; XForms and
DAISY could be outdated or otherwise not useful, others as well -- open
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/issues/512
<clown> issue-519
<trackbot> issue-519 -- Consider removing aria-level from grid (already
allowed on row) -- open
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/issues/519
Rich: do we still link to XForms?

MichaelC: we probably never removed what was there. These are editorial.
But when we look at them people still think they are important.

Rich: so 2.0 or 1.2?

MichaelC: I would like to clean them up?

Rich: Okay - 1.2

<clown> issue-509
<trackbot> issue-509 -- For cross-referenced role and attrs (e.g. listbox,
see combobox and list), expand on the explanation of why they are similar
or easily confusable concepts. -- raised
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/issues/509
Rich: any concerns about punting?

clown: this one is already set to aria 2

Rich: I know, but we are triaging so... is it okay to pu tinto authoring
practices?

clown: sure

<clown> issue-515
<trackbot> issue-515 -- Should aria-invalid and aria-disabled really be a
global state? -- open
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/issues/515
Rich: This is more than just forms and whatnot.

<MichaelC> issue-515: https://www.w3.org/2012/05/07-pf-minutes#item12
<trackbot> Notes added to issue-515 Should aria-invalid and aria-disabled
really be a global state?.
clown: I htink this came up in testing last time around. We were using
role=main to test invalid, and people were complaining.

Rich: but if you put it on text... where it doesn't require a role, then
you have a problem.

joanie: when you say text do you mean just any old string?

Rich: Yes...

clown: well, you need an element

joanie: I think this is worth addressing....

Rich: in 1.2?

joanie: You mentioned content-editable. That is dependent on what that
mapping is, and that might be distinguishable. We have a lot of things that
are global and shouldn't be

Not closing. leave in aria 2

<clown> issue-54
<trackbot> issue-54 -- Conflicting properties inheriting through taxonomy
-- raised
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/issues/54
MichaelC: I am okay with closing it

Rich: if they find a problem later, matt will let us know
... largely addressed in ARIA 1.1

MichaelC: the scripts keep things tied together better now.

ISSUE-338

<trackbot> ISSUE-338 -- Address the use of the xlink:title attribute in
computing the text equivalent for determining an accessible name. -- raised
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/issues/338
<clown> issue-338
<trackbot> issue-338 -- Address the use of the xlink:title attribute in
computing the text equivalent for determining an accessible name. -- raised
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/issues/338
ShaneM: overcome by events

ISSUE-141

<trackbot> Sorry, but ISSUE-141 does not exist.
ISSUE-941

<trackbot> Sorry, but ISSUE-941 does not exist.
<clown> issue-481
<trackbot> issue-481 -- aria-live removal events should or must happen
before object removal -- open
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/issues/481
Rich: do we say anyting about the sequencing? This would need to go into
the AAM

clown: he is actually citing the old AIG
... I have a note to move it to ARIA 2

Rich: but it is still a core-aam issue
... I am goin to move it to aria 2.0 core-aam

clown: I wonder if this text still exists

ISSUE-501

<trackbot> ISSUE-501 -- Allow menuitem, menuitemcheckbox to have a group
parent like menuitemradio does when in a menu role -- open
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/issues/501
Rich: I agree -w hy would you have that in a group

clown: why are menu items require group...

Rich: it has to be in one of those
... checkbox could go into that list
... I have never heard of it being an issue. We could fix it in 1.2.

clown: fine with me

Rich: Editing the issue....

<clown> issue-511
<trackbot> issue-511 -- Provide better definition for input: what roles
should descend from it because they provide a value to be stored, and what
roles are adjusting values of UI components but it's not intended for
long-term storage -- open
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/issues/511
<clown>
https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/07b7c8c65add171a0ba19234489aec4fb4b811ea/aria/aria.html#input
<MichaelC> issue-511: https://www.w3.org/2012/04/30-pf-minutes#item21
<trackbot> Notes added to issue-511 Provide better definition for input:
what roles should descend from it because they provide a value to be
stored, and what roles are adjusting values of UI components but it's not
intended for long-term storage.
<joanie> https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/CR_ARIA_1_1_0/aria/aria.html#input
ISSUE-518

<trackbot> ISSUE-518 -- Consider adding aria-level to landmark regions --
open
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/issues/518
ShaneM: I don't understand how it would hook into the structure....

Rich: I agree, this seems like a bad idea.

clown: ask Matt?

Rich: I am going to leave it in ARIA 2

ISSUE-530

<trackbot> ISSUE-530 -- Since "req owned elements" can list contextual
hierarchies like tree: "group →(containing) treeitem", consider doing the
same for "req owned elements like treeitem "group ← (contained in) tree."
-- open
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/issues/530
MichaelC: This is something that would be addressed by the maintenance
scripts I assume

Rich: Do you want it in 1.2?

MichaelC: I dont think it is a burning issue. Nice to have.

<clown> issue-520
<trackbot> issue-520 -- Expand list of roles on which aria-readonly can be
used, most likely changing textbox to input - ARIA 1.1 -- open
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/issues/520
<Rich> checkbox
<Rich> combobox
<Rich> grid
<Rich> gridcell
joanie: I think this is fixed...

<Rich> listbox
<Rich> radiogroup
<Rich> slider
<Rich> spinbutton
<Rich> textbox
<Rich> ihherited into:
<Rich> columnheader
<Rich> menuitemcheckbox
<Rich> menuitemradio
<Rich> rowheader
<Rich> searchbox
<Rich> switch
<Rich> treegrid
joanie: I am comfortable with closing this. I suspect this has been dealt
with.

Rich: I am going to close it as overcome by events

Testing

Rich: Jon Gunderson reported that we have a working harness for ATK ATSPI.
He is going to use python based bridge from NVDA to be able to build the
ATTA for MSAA and IA2
... joanie are you looking at doing webkit?

joanie: I am going to work with people at Apple to do this

Rich: microsoft agreed to do the UIA mapping
... we just have to fix up the testable statements

https://www.w3.org/wiki/ARIA_1.1_Testable_Statements#Overview

<clown>
https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#role-map-term
ShaneM: some errors in the role testable statement section... shane will fix

Rich: there will be API work on tables and such
... working to get James Teh to be added as an invited expert.
... trying to bring the AT vendors in here. They like to discuss mapping
work in public (in their lists)
... then bring it back here
... some edge cases come in... aria-labelled by not working on an applet....

MichaelC: the tools could generate more comprehensive tests

Rich: I think the graphics and svg-aam are ready to go to CR...
... I did meet with plh that indicate some things might be removed from
SVG...

MichaelC: that might not mean anything for me.

Rich: It does effect things like shadow trees.
... I think that we are good shape all the way around.
... I do think that need to define exit criteria for the mapping specs. We
will need to revisit that.

Summary of Action Items

Summary of Resolutions

Take ARIA 1.1 and advance to CR with correction to minor nits by Joanie.
[End of minutes]
Minutes formatted by David Booth's scribe.perl version 1.144 (CVS log)
$Date: 2016/10/06 18:11:54 $
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Succeeded: s/role/row/
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Found ScribeNick: ShaneM
Inferring Scribes: ShaneM
Present: ShaneM Joanmarie_Diggs Joseph_Scheuhammer Rich_Schwerdtfeger
Found Date: 06 Oct 2016
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2016/10/06-aria-minutes.html
People with action items:

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-- 
Shane McCarron
Projects Manager, Spec-Ops
Received on Thursday, 6 October 2016 18:14:15 UTC

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