Draft Minutes: March 17, 2016 WAI-ARIA Working Group


Accessible Rich Internet Applications Working Group Teleconference
17 Mar 2016
See also: IRC log<http://www.w3.org/2016/03/17-aria-irc>
Michiel_Bijl, Fred_Esch, Ja_Eun_Ku, Rich_Schwerdtfeger, Joanmarie_Diggs, Joseph_Scheuhammer, Bryan_Garaventa, janina
jongund, matt_king

  *   Topics<https://www.w3.org/2016/03/17-aria-minutes.html#agenda>
     *   Technical Plenary<https://www.w3.org/2016/03/17-aria-minutes.html#item01>
     *   ARIA 1.1 test effort<https://www.w3.org/2016/03/17-aria-minutes.html#item02>
     *   Combobox<https://www.w3.org/2016/03/17-aria-minutes.html#item03>
     *   Action 1743<https://www.w3.org/2016/03/17-aria-minutes.html#item04>
     *   Password Role<https://www.w3.org/2016/03/17-aria-minutes.html#item05>
     *   ACTION 1489<https://www.w3.org/2016/03/17-aria-minutes.html#item06>
     *   Computed name and role<https://www.w3.org/2016/03/17-aria-minutes.html#item07>
     *   ACTION 1624<https://www.w3.org/2016/03/17-aria-minutes.html#item08>
     *   ACTION 2023 Role=Text<https://www.w3.org/2016/03/17-aria-minutes.html#item09>
  *   Summary of Action Items<https://www.w3.org/2016/03/17-aria-minutes.html#ActionSummary>
  *   Summary of Resolutions<https://www.w3.org/2016/03/17-aria-minutes.html#ResolutionSummary>

<Rich> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-aria/2016Mar/0124.html

<Rich> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-aria/2016Mar/0124.html

<Rich> scribe: jongund
Technical Plenary
<Rich> Technical Plenary - 2016 (September 19-23; Lisbon, Portugal). Who will be able to attend?
<joanie> I will be there.
RS: WHois coming?
CS: I can come
MB: I can come
<Rich> I will try
FE: I can
RS: I am
MK: Maybe
JG: no
MC: Yes
<jamesn> JN: I will try - if i can get approvals
RS: We have enough to do real work
<joanie> JD: I will definitely be there
MC: Definiateley, I was assuming, the main question is who we want to meet with
RS: I am hoping september we will be well into testing
... We need to hook up with web apps
... CS what is going on with the community group
CS: Not a whole lot
RS: What to do something joint?
CS: Let me get back to you on that
RS: What are we going to do on personalization, if media queries are off the table, then we need an API
CS: What type?
RS: In order for us to address cognitive im[airments we need to know what the user needs, this can be done other ways but we need something from the browser
... We need to detect things like S/N are low and captions are needed
... Smarter apps need more information
... Doesn't mean that the API comes out of this group
CS: I am not sure rosen is the right person
RS: I need to setup a page
MC: There is a survey of chairs what they are planning for there working group
RS: We can split things with the ....
MC: You and JS coordinate on meeting schedule
RS: JS needs to be there the whole week
MK: If ARIA can be Thursday and Friday it would be better for me
RS: I don't have a problem
CS: I will be their the whole week
JN: It is in September
RS: RS: I will ask for thursday and friday
MC: You need to fill out the survey
RS: There will be no ARIA working group meeting March 24th
<clown> https://www.w3.org/2016/09/TPAC/

RS: Where is JG on the testing
<mck> scribe: matt_king
ARIA 1.1 test effort
<mck> rs: Michael has created exit criteria identifiying aria 1.1 changes
<mck> rs: defines what is needed for test statements
<mck> rs: We need people who have volunteered to write test statements
<mck> rs: It is a bit of an art to do it.
<MichaelC> draft status for CR with exit criteria: https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/CR-pub/aria/aria.html#sotd

<mck> jg: In this round, things that have not changed from 1.0, will they be tested?
<mck> rs: Right, however, we have a new col in AAM for UIA
<Zakim> clown, you wanted to ask if the exit criteria delimits what needs to be tested.
<mck> So, we need to test all aria features for Edge , including 1.0
<mck> CS: We are automating that and making good progress.
<mck> Joanie: I have added about 200 assertions to webkit
<mck> Fred and I need to talk for SVG
<mck> RS: Joanie, do you we can automate IA2 or Ma?
<mck> CS: Should be easy to port the UIA automated testing to other platforms; will be able to say more in a couple weeks.
<mck> Joanie: I will look into Mac
<mck> rs: Has MS created 1.1 test cases, or just 1.0?
<mck> CS: we have done some of 1.1
<mck> RS: can you share with JF?
<mck> rs: Have we heard more from Alex about MSAA UIA Express?
<mck> CS: No
<mck> RS: I don't think we are going to need that if we go to common mappings in the future; not good use of time.
<mck> rs: The exit criteria section includes everything we need testable statements for
<mck> RS: Where is CRPub? Can we get it with git pull?
<mck> MC: Us git sync
<mck> rs: John circle back with cynthia and JF's team.
<mck> CS: can we talk about it at CSUN?
<Rich> http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/action1490-combobox/aria/aria.html#combobox

MK: Jaws versions causing crashing problems
... Action 1490 branch
... To make this time most useful, I would like to go through the changes from discussion at least weeks meeting
... I want to go through this section of without discussing everything anout tree, gird and dialog
... The first think is that you didn't like listbox being a popup
RS: I think that's good
MK: Second paragraph is all about the test box element
... I think every body agrees it should be a single line text box
RS: A textbox by default is single line
MK: We need to explicitly define it is single line
JS: Or you could say line terminators
MK: I think it is OK the way it is
... Next is about expand collapse
... We elevated this from should to must, put on textbox element
... When a combobox is expanded, authors MUST ensure it contains or owns an element that has a role of listbox, tree, grid, or dialog. This element is the combobox popup. Elements with the role combobox have an implicit aria-haspopup value of true.
RS: exapnd goes on the combobox
MK Correct
MK: The fourth one is about focus...
... Authors should put focus on the textbox, authors should move focus....
... To be keyboard accessible, authors SHOULD manage focus of descendants for all instances of this role, as described in Managing Focus. When a combobox receives focus, authors SHOULD ensure focus is placed on the textbox element. Authors SHOULD provide keyboard mechanisms for moving focus to and from the textbox element and the pop-up. For example, one common convention is that Down Arrow...
... moves focus from the text input to the first focusable descendant of the pop-up element. If the popup element supports aria-activedescendant, authors MAY specify a value for aria-activedescendant on the textbox element that refers to a descendant of the popup element.
... ARIA activedescendant can point to the element in the list box that it owns
RS: They could put it on the combobox?
MK: The listbox does not have focus
RS: When you say it maybe on the textbox or the list
MK: If you put DOM focus on the listbox it meets the current requirement
... They can put DOM focus on the UL element
RS: You don't think authors will get confused
MK: In this particular spec language
RS: I understand it, but new users might get confused
CS: I have another question
<Zakim> MichaelC, you wanted to note DPub also starting to think test cases
MK: Maybe in the last sentence I can add
... It starts with if the element the author wants to keep focus on the textbox .....
RS: We have people on the cue
MC: Deque is testing accessibility API mappings
CS: So would you expect autocomplete on Google or bing would use this pattern
<bgaraventa1979> +q
MK: I am not familiar with bing, but they should work with facebook and google
CS: You think of them as comboboxes?
MK: If you want to talk about the definition of combobox
CS: That is not where I was going
MK: I wrote it in broad terms about down arrow....
CS: There is a feature in Narrator that if can a textbox or autocompelete, but if there could be an aria-controls
MK: The AT vendors wanted some siblings relationship, they didn't care about controls, if it is an authoring requirement..
CS: If it is an authoring practices and examples it will most likely be there
MK: We don;'t have aria-controls on grids for sorting
RS: I don't think it is alot of work
MK: It is a decision related to making is easier for authors or for ATs
CS: It this author doesn't use autocomplete then there is DOM inspection that is fragile
... autocomplete is a may
MK: There are plenty of examples where autocomplete is not needed
... The main thing for the browser is that it is in the expanded state that there are two controls, that is a must
CS: I need a controller relationship
MK: Your advocating an author should for aria-controls
CS: On the listbox and listbox
RS: Or anything that is open
... The textbox could be a search box
MK: Good point I forgot the search role
... The way it is written it is OK, searchbox is a descendant of textbox
RS: I think we need to make that explicit
... We are running out of time
... I don't have a problem with this, but I don't think you want a controls for a switch
MK There is an author must...
MK: Is everything is OK with the example, we have consensus on anything else
JS: I sent an editorial comment
<clown> mck: my editorial suggestions are here: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-aria/2016Mar/0191.html

BG: COuld I get an answer to the questions I asked earlier today
MK: I have not got to the email yet
RS: I think we need to tightened
MK: This is not wide open
... We have an author must statement, on exactly on how it should be constructed
RS: Authors must have owns...., I guess it is in two separate sentences
... Is everyone OK with the dialog box
MK: CSUN is a good place to talk about this
RS: I am not a big fan of dialog box, there are some people who are not comfortable with it
MK: We want to limit unnecessary role proliferation, I am happy we have made this much progress, ....
<jamesn> Date picker is an example of dialog right?
Action 1743
<clown> action-1743
<trackbot> action-1743 -- Joanmarie Diggs to Put aria-activedescendant on application and request wg review -- due 2016-02-17 -- PENDINGREVIEW
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1743

RS: Putting aria-activedescendant on role=application
JOANIE: I ahve not done anything with this
MK: Can we put that on the agenda for after CSUN
RS: Joanie has a branch
... Can we assign these to you MK
JOANIE: Fell free to make changes in my brand
MK: ONly in application and activedesendant
RS: What date can you come back to the group
MK: 2 weeks
RS: Need to find the agenda
Password Role
<joanie> https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/password-role/aria/aria.html#password

<clown> action-2004
<trackbot> action-2004 -- Joanmarie Diggs to Create proposal for password role -- due 2016-03-10 -- PENDINGREVIEW
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/2004

RS: Joanie you want to put int he branch
<joanie> https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/password-role/aria/aria.html#password

RS: Issues with supported properties and states
... This looks ok to me
JS: What would you put in for placeholder
Joanie: That would change the how ATs would want to see the role exposed
RS: HTML5 type=password support placeholder
JN: Yes people use it all the time
RS: I can see where you would use it
JN: Make and model of a car
RS: Goven that do people have issues with the new Password role?
MK: I am still reading the text
JOANIE: I thought we said haspopup should not be supported
RS: It could be help information
MK: Looks good to me
RESOLUTION: Accept joanie's proposal, and close action
... Accept joanie's proposal for new ROLE=PASSWORD, and close action 2004
JOANIE: I'll close it when its merged
MC: They are not at the top of the page
... But they are there
... These are no W3C announcements on working draft changes
... But the groups can publicize them and send them to people
JOANIE: Did you what me to remove ...
... Input for entering the password
MK: yes

RS: Move one

<clown> issue-686
<trackbot> issue-686 -- need a getComputedLabel or getComputedName -- open
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/issues/686

Computed name and role
RS: We met witht he group 2 years ago
... No action in 2 years, so move to ARIA 2.0
MK: We kind of have to
Proposed moving Issue 686 on APIs on roles and accessible name to ARIA 2.0
MC: We don't need a CFC for moving it
<Rich> https://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/issues/686

RESOLUTION: MOve Issue 686 to ARIA 2.0
<clown> action-1624
<trackbot> action-1624 -- Michael Cooper to Work with shane to develop publication strategy and solution that would exclude abstract roles for authors -- due 2016-03-17 -- OPEN
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1624

MC: Can you put this higher on list after CSUN
MK: What do links do ....
JS: Point to the full spec
MC: We have to sort out in the process of doing the actions
<clown> action-2023
<trackbot> action-2023 -- Joanmarie Diggs to Write a proposal about how to modify the definition of role text to limit its use. -- due 2016-02-23 -- OPEN
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/2023

ACTION 2023 Role=Text
<clown> issue-1011
<trackbot> issue-1011 -- For role="text", there needs to be requirements on user agents for overrides, such as controls, events, and other global aria properties, like there is for role="presentation". -- open
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/issues/1011

ACTION-2023: Write a proposal about how to modify the definition of role text to limit its use.
<trackbot> Notes added to ACTION-2023 Write a proposal about how to modify the definition of role text to limit its use..
Write a proposal about how to modify the definition of role text to limit its use.
RS: When you have text content a bit differently
... I know you can put this in button
... If you put a link inside a role=text, that that would be dangerous
... ***** role=text with aria-label="4 stars"
... IN the case of buttons the roles are presentations
... role=text can not have interactive elements
FE: I want to make sure it can work in SVG with a path used for text
RS: That would not be an issue
JN: I want to make sure we solve the problem for people who write good code, bad coders will always do bad things
MK: My understanding of the role=text is making content easier to listen to, so it is getting into the realm ...
... Realm of presentation, so the author is making a judgement that is different structure or roles
<cyns> +1
MK: I want to make sure that the original content is available tot he AT user
<Zakim> clown, you wanted to say it could be handled as exceptions to role presentation.
MK: FOr example if it is a graphic I can get to the original image
JS: If you put presentation on a link it the browser will ignore the role and present the link
RS: I would go with that
CS: I have a cautious approval, I have concerns about authoring
RS: The next question is this...., Joanie had the action
... Should Joanie come back with a proposal?
<clown> +1
<mck> +1
<cyns> +1
RS: Anything that is a descendant that is interactive will invalidate the role
<Rich> +1
JN: What it is has tabindex=-1 and aria-hidden?
CS: We need to look at a draft
JN: James put ...
Joanie: I don't like the role, so I need everyones comments
MK: The text role provides an alternative presentation, user agents must not hide the accessible
JS: What about title attribute?
MK: It is kind of like that
RS: We are out of time
Summary of Action Items
Summary of Resolutions

  1.  Accept joanie's proposal, and close action<https://www.w3.org/2016/03/17-aria-minutes.html#resolution01>
  2.  MOve Issue 686 to ARIA 2.0<https://www.w3.org/2016/03/17-aria-minutes.html#resolution02>
[End of minutes]
Minutes formatted by David Booth's scribe.perl<http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/%7Echeckout%7E/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm> version 1.144 (CVS log<http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/>)
$Date: 2016/03/17 18:00:54 $
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Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)

Succeeded: s/shar/share/
Succeeded: s/IA2 Express/MSAA UIA Express/
Succeeded: s/taxonomy/how ATs would want to see the role exposed/
Found Scribe: jongund
Inferring ScribeNick: jongund
Found Scribe: matt_king
Scribes: jongund, matt_king
Present: Michiel_Bijl Fred_Esch Ja_Eun_Ku Rich_Schwerdtfeger Joanmarie_Diggs Joseph_Scheuhammer Bryan_Garaventa janina
Found Date: 17 Mar 2016
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2016/03/17-aria-minutes.html

People with action items:

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Received on Thursday, 17 March 2016 18:05:34 UTC