Re: Breadcrumb design pattern

Thank you, that all makes sense. I'll add a line and make the thing plural :)

—Michiel

> On 28 Jul 2016, at 04:31, Jason Kiss <jason@accessibleculture.org> wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
>> On 28/07/2016, at 3:04 PM, Michiel Bijl <michiel@agosto.nl> wrote:
>> 
>> That is good advice Jason. Would it be enough to link to the navigation role/nav element warning about this?
> 
> A very short sentence noting that navigation role/nav element might not always be required, with a link to the warning would be fine, I think.
> 
>> 
>> It makes sense to me to make it navigation as that's its purpose.
> 
> Every group of links has navigation as its purpose, but not every group of links needs to be a <nav> or navigation landmark, no?
> 
> 
>> I'd argue that a breadcrumb is more important than cruft in a fat footer.
> 
> It’s going to depend on context, isn’t it? 
> 
>> 
>> That said, if not a nav, what then?
> 
> I wish there were a document structure role like “region” that wasn’t also a landmark, wasn’t included in a page summary or ToC, but that took a nice aria-label. Is that role=“group”? What about <div role=“group” aria-label=“Breadcrumbs”>? (By the way, in your example, shouldn’t it be Breadcrumbs, plural? It’s a collection of crumbs, right? How far do you get on just one crumb? ;)
> 
> Otherwise, and I’m not suggesting this, but the web did at one point do DIVs with visually hidden headings…. 
> 
> Another pattern I’ve seen is to have the Breadcrumbs included in the <nav> element that also contains the main navigation menu, so you only have one navigation landmark with two sections in it, but now that’s getting more complicated on a few fronts.
> 
> Ultimately, my comment was largely spurred on by what I see as rampant overuse of landmarks, which defeats their usefulness in my opinion, and nothing personal against Breadcrumbs as navigation landmarks per se.
> 
> Jason
> 
>> 
>> —Michiel
>> 
>>> On 28 Jul 2016, at 03:15, Jason Kiss <jason@accessibleculture.org> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Is it always appropriate for breadcrumbs to be a navigation landmark?
>>> Might it not depend on the site/page and the other navigational
>>> sections it contains? I'd say it's a judgment call for the author
>>> whether the breadcrumbs represent a section of "major navigation
>>> blocks". Yes, that is a note from the definition of <nav>, but given
>>> that <nav> maps to a navigation landmark, there's a certain
>>> equivalence. It's how I decide whether or not a navigation block
>>> deserves the <nav> element: Is it so major a navigation block that it
>>> deserves to be a landmark? I think that landmarks tend to get overused
>>> and thus lose their effectiveness: how useful is a landmark in a sea
>>> of landmarks?
>>> 
>>> I often recommend against breadcrumbs being a navigation landmark if
>>> there are a number of other navigational landmarks, e.g. main menu,
>>> section menu, fat footer menu with more than the typical links to
>>> copyright, privacy, etc., and especially if these exist among a whole
>>> bunch of other landmarks.
>>> 
>>> Maybe it's worth noting something along these lines in the authoring practice?
>>> 
>>> Jason
>>> 
>>>> On Thu, Jul 28, 2016 at 12:10 PM, Michiel Bijl <michiel@agosto.nl> wrote:
>>>> Oh right, well, the agenda for the week after that works too :)
>>>> 
>>>> The markup you suggest is what is in the code example. As for a separate
>>>> landmark region, you mean a new role of breadcrumb?
>>>> 
>>>> —Michiel
>>>> 
>>>> On 28 Jul 2016, at 00:27, Birkir Gunnarsson <birkir.gunnarsson@deque.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Hi
>>>> 
>>>> We are not having a meeting until the 8th, right?
>>>> I would like to suggest that the breadcrumb be exposed as an ordered list
>>>> inside a labeled navigation landmark.
>>>> <div role=”navigation” aria-label=”breadcrumb”>
>>>> <ol>
>>>> <li><a href=”/”>Main page</a></li>
>>>> <li><a href=”/categorypage”>Category page</a></li>
>>>> <li><a href=”/categorypage/subpage” aria-current=”page”>Current
>>>> subpage</a></li>
>>>> </ol>
>>>> </div>
>>>> 
>>>> I think a separate landmark region is appropriate for this, of course it is
>>>> just one man’s opinion.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> From: Michiel Bijl [mailto:michiel@agosto.nl]
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2016 6:48 PM
>>>> To: Matt King <mck@fb.com>
>>>> Cc: ARIA Working Group <public-aria@w3.org>
>>>> Subject: APG: Breadcrumb design pattern
>>>> 
>>>> Hi Matt,
>>>> 
>>>> During today's London Accessibility Meetup I've pushed the breadcrumb design
>>>> pattern to the Editor's Draft after a short review with the crowd. Can we
>>>> add this to next week's agenda please? It includes a short description and
>>>> code example all ready to go.
>>>> 
>>>> —Michiel
> 
>

Received on Thursday, 28 July 2016 08:32:55 UTC