[AAPI] Minutes UAI TF Meeting, Tuesday 19 July 2016

URL: https://www.w3.org/2016/07/19-aapi-minutes.html

Plain text follows:

   [1]W3C

      [1] http://www.w3.org/

   Accessible Rich Internet Applications Working Group Teleconference

19 Jul 2016

   See also: [2]IRC log

      [2] http://www.w3.org/2016/07/19-aapi-irc

Attendees

   Present
          Joanmarie_Diggs, Joseph_Scheuhammer, Bryan_Garaventa,
          Cynthia_Shelly

   Regrets
   Chair
          Joseph_Scheuhammer

   Scribe
          joanie

Contents

     * [3]Topics
         1. [4]ISSUE-1029/ACTION-2089 (Cynthia) Check for value
            events for splitters in UIA.
         2. [5]ISSUE-1029/ACTION-2075 (Joanie) Check AXAPI
            mappings of separator role.
         3. [6]ISSUE-676/ACTION-2083 (Joanie/Joseph) Identify
            ATK/AT-SPI states in the mappings
         4. [7]ISSUE-540: Section describing AAPI differences.
         5. [8]Triage issues/actions:
            https://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/products/23
     * [9]Summary of Action Items
     * [10]Summary of Resolutions
     __________________________________________________________

   <clown> agenda: this

   <scribe> scribe: joanie

ISSUE-1029/ACTION-2089 (Cynthia) Check for value events for splitters
in UIA.

   <clown> issue-1029

   <trackbot> issue-1029 -- Add mappings for interactive separator
   (window splitter). -- open

   <trackbot> [11]http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/issues/1029

     [11] http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/issues/1029

   JS: I really want to close this issue.
   ... Which is the different mappings for hr versus splitter
   versus focusable splitter.

   <clown> action-2089?

   <trackbot> action-2089 -- Cynthia Shelly to Double check
   potential value events on windows when window-splitter changes
   position. -- due 2016-07-05 -- OPEN

   <trackbot> [12]http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/2089

     [12] http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/2089

   JS: There are two actions left.
   ... One for Cynthia.

   <cyns> Thumb events:
   [13]https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/ee
   671652(v=vs.85).aspx#RequiredTextEvents

     [13]
https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/ee671652(v=vs.85).aspx#RequiredTextEvents

   <cyns> bounding rectangle change event *might* get you what
   you're looking for?

   CS: The interactive splitter is a thumb.
   ... The thumb isn't exactly tied to the window it's moving.
   ... There's a bounding rectangle event that changes when you
   move the splitter.

   <clown>
   [14]https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#r
   ole-map-separator

     [14]
https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#role-map-separator

   CS: Which I suspect is not what you're asking about.

   JS: Ok, what do we want to put in the mapping?

   CS: We don't have a value property.
   ... You can tell where the splitter has moved to.
   ... From which you can derive the value.
   ... But that would be work on the AT side.

   JD: Could the user agent do the calculation?

   CS: I think I would have a hard time convincing developers to
   do that.
   ... They would probably want to add features to UIA instead.
   ... What are you looking for Joanie?

   JD: My platform is fine because authors have to provide the
   values and my platform has a place to put those values.

   [15]https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/aria/aria.html#separator

     [15] https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/aria/aria.html#separator

   CS: UIA has two different kind of values.
   ... And valuenow is only supported on things with ranges.
   ... So putting a range value on a splitter seems bizarre.

   JD: Not to me.

   CS: So we'd have to change the mapping of valuenow if it's on a
   splitter.

   JD: (Explanation of why values are needed on her platform)

   CS: When I looked last, there didn't seem to be a need for the
   current value.

   JS: The spec says that if the separator is focusable, authors
   MUST set the value of valuenow.
   ... And authors SHOULD set the value of valuemin and valuemax.

   CS: We could stick it in range value.
   ... I'm just not sure how useful or usable it's going to be.
   ... Since the mapping should just happen, I can play with it
   now and see how it works.

   JS: This might come up again when we get to testing.

   CS: I think that aria-valuenow is used, it will automatically
   get mapped.

   JS: That leads me to believe that I don't need to do anything
   to the mapping spec.

   CS: For UIA, I don't think you do need to do anything.

   JS: Bryan, do you have a test case in the APG yet?

   BG: No.

   JS: Let me do a quick check to see what Dojo does.
   ... Because I know they have them.

   <clown>
   [16]http://archive.dojotoolkit.org/nightly/dojotoolkit/dijit/te
   sts/layout/test_SplitContainer.html

     [16]
http://archive.dojotoolkit.org/nightly/dojotoolkit/dijit/tests/layout/test_SplitContainer.html

   JS: The above URL has the test case.
   ... Looking at it with the inspector....
   ... I can see elements for the container.
   ... Oh, the splitter comes into existence when I click on it.
   ... But it has nothing on it.
   ... The top value keeps changing.

   <clown>
   [17]https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#r
   ole-map-group

     [17]
https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#role-map-group

   (Side discussion about group and pane)

   <clown> action-2089

   <trackbot> action-2089 -- Cynthia Shelly to Double check
   potential value events on windows when window-splitter changes
   position. -- due 2016-07-05 -- OPEN

   <trackbot> [18]http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/2089

     [18] http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/2089

   CS: I cannot guarantee Narrator is going to do anything useful
   with the valuenow, but we'll see.

   JS: I'm making a note in the action.
   ... And I'm going to close the action unless anyone objects.

   CS: Works for me.

ISSUE-1029/ACTION-2075 (Joanie) Check AXAPI mappings of separator
role.

   JD: I just commented on the action.

   <clown> action-2075

   <trackbot> action-2075 -- Joanmarie Diggs to AXAPI mapping of
   role="separator", when it is a widget (window splitter). -- due
   2016-06-02 -- OPEN

   <trackbot> [19]http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/2075

     [19] http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/2075

   JS: I'm inclined to close this as well, and nothing needs to
   change in the Core AAM.
   ... Objections?

   JD: No. If it turns out we need to say anything in the mapping
   spec regarding value, we can create a new action.

   JS: It's probably AXValue.

   JD: That would be my guess.

   JS: This action is closed.
   ... That means the issue is now closable too. Finally.

ISSUE-676/ACTION-2083 (Joanie/Joseph) Identify ATK/AT-SPI states in
the mappings

   JD: I need another couple of weeks.

   <clown> issue-676?

   <trackbot> issue-676 -- Is it useful to identify MSAA+IA2 and
   ATK/AT-SPI actions, interfaces, and relations in the mappings?
   -- open

   <trackbot> [20]http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/issues/676

     [20] http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/issues/676

   action-2083

   <trackbot> action-2083 -- Joanmarie Diggs to Review and update
   ATK/AT-SPI2 states in Core AAM -- due 2016-06-21 -- OPEN

   <trackbot> [21]http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/2083

     [21] http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/2083

   JS: I have a question.
   ... I want to associate this action with issue-676.
   ... And close issue-1033 as a duplicate.
   ... Is that ok with you?

   JD: Sure.

ISSUE-540: Section describing AAPI differences.

   <clown> issue-540

   <trackbot> issue-540 -- Should the UAIG have a section to
   describe the API differences -- open

   <trackbot> [22]http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/issues/540

     [22] http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/issues/540

   JS: I think this one is dead too.
   ... Jason Kiss raised this a while ago.
   ... Various people went off and wrote things.

   <clown>
   [23]https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#c
   omparing-accessibility-apis

     [23]
https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#comparing-accessibility-apis

   JS: All the actions associated with this issue are done.
   ... The URL above has the relevant content.
   ... I'm inclined to close this as complete.
   ... Does anyone think otherwise?

   CS: Let me look at it a bit more.
   ... I think it's fine.

   JS: Anyone else want to keep it open?
   ... Hearing no objections, I'm closing it.

Triage issues/actions:
[24]https://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/products/23

     [24] https://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/products/23

   <clown> issue-541?

   <trackbot> issue-541 -- Text Alt Comp too specific to ARIA
   attributes (aria-valuetext and aria-valuenow) -- open

   <trackbot> [25]http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/issues/541

     [25] http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/issues/541

   JS: Aside from being in the wrong place.... James Craig raised
   this back in 2012.
   ... He said it's too specific.
   ... He's mostly worried about aria-valuenow and aria-valuetext.
   ... He proposes we change the text to reflect range.
   ... I thought I had made this change independent of this issue.

   CS: I'm hesitant to make significant changes to the AccName
   spec.

   JS: (Reads text from spec)
   ... It's almost the same as what James had suggested.

   <clown>
   [26]https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/accname-aam/accname-aam.
   html#mapping_additional_nd_name#step2E

     [26]
https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/accname-aam/accname-aam.html#mapping_additional_nd_name

   JS: URL is above.
   ... It's the fourth bullet James was concerned about.

   [27]https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/accname-aam/accname-aam.
   html#step2E

     [27]
https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/accname-aam/accname-aam.html#step2E

   <clown> [28]https://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/issues/541

     [28] https://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/issues/541

   JD: Corrected (slightly) direct URL above.

   JS: His language is in issue-541.

   JD: Text of 4th bullet If the embedded control has role range
   (e.g., a spinbutton or slider):

   If the aria-valuetext property is present, return its value,

   Otherwise, if the aria-valuenow property is present, return its
   value,

   Otherwise, use the value as specified by a host language
   attribute.

   <clown> "If the embedded control is a range (e.g., a spinbutton
   or slider), use the value of the aria-valuetext attribute if
   available, or otherwise the value of the aria-valuenow
   attribute."

   JS: Above is the text James suggested.

   JD: Wow, it is nearly identical. Great minds and all that.

   JS: I'm going to close this issue then.

   issue-587

   <trackbot> issue-587 -- Consider allowing the aria-selected
   state on any focusable element, or add a new attr like
   aria-active or aria-current -- open

   <trackbot> [29]http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/issues/587

     [29] http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/issues/587

   JS: This one can probably be closed.
   ... It goes way back to 2013.
   ... Steve Faulkner wanted state selected on more elements, e.g.
   to identicate the current item in a table of contents.
   ... We now have aria-current.

   <clown>
   [30]https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#a
   riaCurrent

     [30]
https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#ariaCurrent

   JS: We have mappings for it. I think it's well-documented in
   the spec.
   ... Therefore I don't think we need this issue any more.
   ... It has about seven actions which are all closed.
   ... So I think it's done.
   ... Objections to closing it?

   <crickets>

   JS: Closed.

   issue-594

   <trackbot> issue-594 -- tablist role has implicit live region
   mapping in UIA guide -- open

   <trackbot> [31]http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/issues/594

     [31] http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/issues/594

   JS: This is back when we called it the User Agent
   Implementation Guide.
   ... Back then tablist was a live region.

   <clown> [32]https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=896400

     [32] https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=896400

   JS: Marco pointed it out (see above bugzilla link).
   ... And they changed it to not be a live region any more.

   CS: Sounds done.

   JS: (Reads comments from bug)

   <clown>
   [33]https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#r
   ole-map-tablist

     [33]
https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#role-map-tablist

   JS: There are a bunch of patches and it's marked RESOLVED
   FIXED.
   ... Looking at the Core AAM, it's not mapped/exposed as a live
   region.

   <clown> action-1435

   <trackbot> action-1435 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Edit the ia2
   and atk/at-spi entries for role tablist to remove the live
   region aspects of the mapping. -- due 2014-05-13 -- CLOSED

   <trackbot> [34]http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1435

     [34] http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1435

   JS: I have a note in action-1435.
   ... I need this change back in may of 2014.
   ... But I kept the issue open because there are test cases that
   pass back in ARIA 1.0.
   ... So those test cases would have to change.
   ... I don't think we're going to test this again.

   CS: If the test cases are still hanging around, then they'll
   fail.
   ... So we need to update the test cases.
   ... Assign that to me.

   <clown> ACTION: cynthia to adjust IA2 and ATK test cases for
   role tablist to remove the test of the liveregion properties as
   they are no longer supported. [recorded in
   [35]http://www.w3.org/2016/07/19-aapi-minutes.html#action01]

     [35] http://www.w3.org/2016/07/19-aapi-minutes.html#action01]

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-2101 - Adjust ia2 and atk test cases
   for role tablist to remove the test of the liveregion
   properties as they are no longer supported. [on Cynthia Shelly
   - due 2016-07-26].

   <clown> action-2101

   <trackbot> action-2101 -- Cynthia Shelly to Adjust ia2 and atk
   test cases for role tablist to remove the test of the
   liveregion properties as they are no longer supported. -- due
   2016-07-26 -- OPEN

   <trackbot> [36]http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/2101

     [36] http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/2101

   CS: Give me a month.

   JS: Ok. And I'll associate it with the test-plan product.

   CS: Sure.

   JS: I'm going to close the issue.

   issue-609

   <trackbot> issue-609 -- Text Alt Comp section does not
   explicitly disallow empty strings as a valid label -- open

   <trackbot> [37]http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/issues/609

     [37] http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/issues/609

   JS: This is another raised by James Craig about AccName.
   ... James wants verbiage to say that empty labels are not
   valid.
   ... I tend to agree with him.

   <clown> [38]https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=112842

     [38] https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=112842

   JS: An empty string is not a name.
   ... And he wants to fall back on title.
   ... But that's already in the name computation.
   ... Fred wants to know if labels which consist of nothing but
   whitespace are legitimate accessible names.
   ... I'm tempted to say "no".

   CS: I think disallowing empty strings for aria-label makes
   perfect sense.

   (Discussion about which spec such a prohibition would belong)

   JD: And we're in theory feature-frozen for the ARIA spec.

   JS: I'm going to think about this a bit more.

Summary of Action Items

   [NEW] ACTION: cynthia to adjust IA2 and ATK test cases for role
   tablist to remove the test of the liveregion properties as they
   are no longer supported. [recorded in
   [39]http://www.w3.org/2016/07/19-aapi-minutes.html#action01]

     [39] http://www.w3.org/2016/07/19-aapi-minutes.html#action01

Summary of Resolutions

   [End of minutes]

Received on Tuesday, 19 July 2016 20:14:39 UTC