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Minutes for Monday, 22 February 2016 WAI-PF ARIA Authoring Practices Guide Taskforce

From: Michiel Bijl <michiel@agosto.nl>
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2016 20:34:44 +0100
Message-Id: <A315C84E-DE17-4C4B-85A4-821329079376@agosto.nl>
To: ARIA Working Group <public-aria@w3.org>
Minutes for today’s call can be found in this e-mail as text and at the following url: https://www.w3.org/2016/02/22-aria-apg-minutes.html <https://www.w3.org/2016/02/22-aria-apg-minutes.html>



      [1] http://www.w3.org/

                               - DRAFT -

            WAI-PF ARIA Authoring Practices Guide Taskforce

22 Feb 2016

   See also: [2]IRC log

      [2] http://www.w3.org/2016/02/22-aria-apg-irc


          AnnAbbott, jaeunjemmaku, MichielBijl, JamesNurthen, JF,
          JonGunderson, Birkir, birkir

          LeonieWatson, BryanGaraventa, IanPouncey, MattKing




     * [3]Topics
         1. [4]Complete review of section 2.18 Listbox
         2. [5]Review section 2.31 Tab Panel
         3. [6]other business
     * [7]Summary of Action Items
     * [8]Summary of Resolutions

   <scribe> scribe: MichielBijl

Complete review of section 2.18 Listbox

      [9] http://w3c.github.io/aria/practices/aria-practices.html#Listbox


     [10] https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=29469

   Contents of bug report: Get rid of choices or in 1st para

   3rd paragraph - put the instruction b4 the explanation.

   JN: Anybody have comments?

   MB: Last paragraph reads “See the examples for recommended ways
   of designing around this limitation. (Editor's note: examples
   are not yet coded.)” what sort of code examples do we need?

   JN: Do we normally refer code examples in description? Seems

   MB: No don't think so. I'd just remove it.

   JN: I'm okay with last paragraph, seems like general advice,
   but might be more important for listbox.

   MB: Agreed.

   JN: Move on to keyboard interaction

   *something about tabindex*

   JN: First bullet should not be under keyboard interaction.

   <JF> +1

   Bikir: change to just read “widget should be in the taborder”


   <annabbott> +1

   JN: Same with second bullet. First sentence is all we need.


   *all cheer and shout in agreement*

   “When a listbox receives focus, visual focus is set on an
   option inside the listbox. If browser focus is set to the
   container with role listbox then aria-activedescendant must be
   used to refer to the option with visual focus.”

   JN: Remove that bullet

   MB: Ignore me

   JN: visual focus ≠ selecting
   ... Why is this one so long?
   ... Is it useful being this long?

   JK: It's good to understand all

   Birkir: it's broken down more

   MB: listbox is equal to select element with either rows or
   multiple set right?

   JN: Yes.
   ... we need to clarify difference between select and focus

   Birkir: yeah we do

   JN: how do we do that?
   ... should that be part of the description?

   MB: Yeah

   Birkir: yes

   JF: *issue with aria-select=none*
   ... testing combobox example
   ... if you move focus it states it's not selected
   ... question is, combobox is like a single select, should you
   be setting aria-select true on focus?

   <jamesn> "Single-selection containers where the currently
   focused item is not selected. The selection normally follows
   the focus, and is managed by the user agent."

   <jamesn> "Multiple-selection containers. Authors SHOULD ensure
   that any selectable descendant of a container in which the
   aria-multiselectable attribute is true specifies a value of
   either true or false for the aria-selected attribute."


   <jamesn> " If no DOM element in the widget is explicitly marked
   as selected, assistive technologies may convey implicit
   selection which follows the keyboard focus of the managed focus

   JG: What does that say for the author?
   ... single select don't bother with it?

   JN: single select do the same thing; aria-selected on focus

   JG: shouldn't matter from APG point

   JN: Agreed
   ... That's what the states and properties says
   ... should clarify what we mean by aria-selected

   Birkir: once you've entered a list you can't deselect

   MB: example for html select [11]http://dir.rawr.eu/select.html
   ... to confirm, you cannot clear your selection in that example
   on the Mac.

     [11] http://dir.rawr.eu/select.html

   <annabbott> AA: drop the bullet & text for context menu

   MB: are those even a thing?

   JN: yeah, a rare thing, but they are a thing
   ... dropping it sounds reasonable as it's a general thing
   (context menu key combo)

   Jemma: lots of duplication in the multiple key interaction

   MB: focus on removing duplication

   AA: add general key strokes (up/down, home/end)

   Birkir: agreed

   JN: make home/end optional?

   Birkir: same as type ahead (strongly recommended)

   MB: +1


     [12] https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=29469

   JN: what about note?

   MB: meaningless

   JN: drop note

   MB: fourth bullet is vague
   ... does it mean they're not present in the DOM, or not

   JN: posinset only used if not in DOM

   Jemma: what is the context of this situation

   JN: if not all children of the listbox are loaded (due to
   dynamic loading)

   MB: “If not all options are currently in the DOM, all options
   should have their aria-setsize and aria-posinset set

   Birkir: want to merge the second and third bullet

   MB: +1

   <annabbott> AA: +1

   <jamesn> "Each entry in the listbox should have a role option
   and should be a DOM child of listbox or referenced in the
   listbox by aria-owns."

   Birkir: should “selected list item” be option?

   AA: we use different things in other bullets

   MB: whatever is used, it should be consistent

   AA: should it be “selected list option”?

   JN: add note for editor to clean up?

   *all agree*

   MB: there should be something in there to state the thing is a

   *all agree*

   JN: aria-multiselectable, and all
   children/entries/options/items need aria-selected=true|false

Review section 2.31 Tab Panel

     [13] http://w3c.github.io/aria/practices/aria-practices.html#tabpanel

   JG: are we getting rid of control+page up/down

   JN: I hope so

   MB: me too

   JN: could be optional, but prefer removing them


     [14] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iRmX-GvFeXI

   MB: should we push this to next week?

   JN: should we have multiple ways to do this?

   MB: I could get on board with that.

   JN: activate on focus could be bad for performance

   MB: could circumvent with delay

   JN: let's review the description

   AA: doesn't give you the hierarchy

   MB: +1


     [15] https://github.com/bkardell/common-panel

   spec: [16]https://specs.webplatform.org/#panels-and-panelsets

     [16] https://specs.webplatform.org/#panels-and-panelsets

   Err, actual spec:

     [17] https://specs.webplatform.org/common-panel/bkardell/gh-pages/

   JF: we should look at it closely and take cues from it

   JN: we're trying to make this clearer right now

   dismis zakim

other business


     [18] https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/226


     [19] https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/221

   JF: yes, task force should be two words

   Okay, thanks John!

Summary of Action Items

Summary of Resolutions

   [End of minutes]

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Default Present: AnnAbbott, jaeunjemmaku, MichielBijl, JamesNurthen, JF,
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 Birkir birkir
Regrets: LeonieWatson BryanGaraventa IanPouncey MattKing
Got date from IRC log name: 22 Feb 2016
Guessing minutes URL: [23]http://www.w3.org/2016/02/22-aria-apg-minutes.
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     [23] http://www.w3.org/2016/02/22-aria-apg-minutes.html

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