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Comments regarding Combobox in the ARIA Caucus meeting

From: Bryan Garaventa <bryan.garaventa@ssbbartgroup.com>
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2016 19:43:56 +0000
To: Matt King <a11ythinker@gmail.com>, 'Richard Schwerdtfeger' <richschwer@gmail.com>, 'ARIA Working Group' <public-aria@w3.org>
Message-ID: <SN1PR0301MB1981383F8D6074753E53A0F698AF0@SN1PR0301MB1981.namprd03.prod.outlook.com>
Hi, I wished to bring this up here since it allowed me to read the minutes first, and also due to the time restriction.

I don't have any problem with supporting the alternative method for role=combobox that was proposed, as a secondary option to the way people have been doing it for years.

I still don't understand what is so intrinsically inaccessible about how people have been constructing these widgets as I've mentioned however, that necessitates a paradigm shift and the statement that this new alternative method is "preferred" according to the spec.

So far the only statement I see regarding this is the following:

MK: That particular structure is in ARIA and the web world.
... But the screen reader developers are rejecting.
... The engjineers are aware of the XAML structure, but do not like it.

My concern is this, we have been providing this provably accessible construct of input+type='text'+role='combobox'+aria-expanded='false'+aria-autocomplete='list'+aria-controls='listbox'+aria-activedescendant='optionId' literally for years.

This has been incorporated into client sites in all sectors and industries, including online banking, the entertainment industry, the travel industry, the healthcare industry, amongst many others including government agencies.

Saying that this new way of doing things is "preferred" according to the spec simply for the reason that developers don't like it, is very dangerous, and has the potential to negatively impact millions of daily users across countless sites where these components are currently implemented accessibly.

It concerns me that screen reader vendors are hot and bothered about a new way of doing something, which increases the likelihood that the old, supposedly 'not preferred' method of doing this, will be quietly dropped between the cracks and no longer supported without any consideration of this.

I have already observed that some screen reader venders will do this.

From: Matt King [mailto:a11ythinker@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, February 18, 2016 11:10 AM
To: 'Richard Schwerdtfeger' <richschwer@gmail.com>; 'ARIA Working Group' <public-aria@w3.org>
Subject: Minutes: February 18, 2015 WAI-ARIA Working Group

Draft minutes for this meeting are available at:

From: Richard Schwerdtfeger [mailto:richschwer@gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2016 2:57 PM
To: ARIA Working Group <public-aria@w3.org<mailto:public-aria@w3.org>>
Subject: Agenda: February 18, 2015 WAI-ARIA Working Group

Agenda: February 18, 2015 WAI-ARIA Working Group

Time of meeting is 12:30PM EST, 9:30AM PST, 16:30 UTC, duration is 1.5 hours

Webex: https://mit.webex.com/mit/j.php?MTID=m5d67b552441a72bd1f52d696ad273d2e <https://mit.webex.com/mit/j.php?MTID=m5d67b552441a72bd1f52d696ad273d2e> , meeting password: w3c

US Toll Number: +1-617-324-0000 Access code:640 582 571 (Mobile Auto Dial: +1-617-324-0000,,,640582571#)

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1. CFCs

        - Action 1672 - Deprecation of aria-grabbed, aria-dropeffect passed CFC with no objections

               - https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-aria-admin/2016Feb/0001.html

2. Action 1490: Combobox (20 minutes *max* discussion) Matt

        - latest post as of the creation of this agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-aria/2016Feb/0288.html

        - https://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1490

        - https://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/issues/610

        - Proposal Text: http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/mck-action1490/aria/aria.html

3. ARIA Test Harness Coordination - Michael

        - Need directions for Deque Team in India

4. ACTION 2018: aria-details updated (Rich)

        - Proposal Text: https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/issue1009/aria/aria.html#aria-details

        - https://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/2018

        - https://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/issues/1009

        - https://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/2016

5. Action 2006: Draft proposal for new aria-linktype role Joanie

        - https://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/2006

        - Proposal: https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/action-2006/aria/aria.html#aria-linktype

        - https://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/issues/1008

6. Action 1723: Create sections listing the roles that provide nameFrom:author and nameFrom:Contents (Joanie)

        - https://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1723

7. Action 1743: Put aria-activedescendant on application (Joanie)

        - https://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1743

8. Action 2021: Draft Text for default max and min spinbutton values (Joanie)

        - https://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/2021

4. Review Open Action Items and Issues (Many overdue items - need to get new dates and determine if must reassign)

        - http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/products/17

5. Action 1490: Propose Spec Text Edits for Combobox - Matt

        - https://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1490


Extended Description Analysis:


ARIA Test Plan Action Items:


ARIA Implementation Guide:


ARIA Name Computation Issues and Actions:


ARIA Test Report:


ARIA 1.1 Test Plan Issues and Actions:


ARIA 1.1 Test Harness:


Use Cases for Extended Descriptions:


WAI-ARIA Extension Process:


ARIA Working Group Decision Policy


Minutes Last Meeting:

Received on Thursday, 18 February 2016 19:44:43 UTC

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