W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-aria@w3.org > February 2016

Re: grids vs sortable tables

From: Steve Faulkner <faulkner.steve@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2016 22:50:28 +0000
Message-ID: <CA+ri+VmsS6Lc-eRLg3i6JTg4dUrn6J0W-AfbUU+zKC-H=_vVvQ@mail.gmail.com>
To: Fred Esch <fesch@us.ibm.com>
Cc: Accessible Rich Internet Applications Working Group <public-aria@w3.org>, W3C WAI Accessible Platform Architectures <public-apa@w3.org>
Hi Fred, I am not the decider of this, implementers are not interested in
implementing native HTML table sorting features. So it does not make sense
to keep features defined in the spec.

As far as exposing information to AT, aria-sort can be used no?


On Monday, 1 February 2016, Fred Esch <fesch@us.ibm.com> wrote:

> Steve,
>
> There are sortable tables being used in the wild, for example angularJS's
> ng-table. How are developers supposed to tell AT users that a table is
> sortable and a column can be sorted if the sortable and sorted properties
> are removed?
>
> Sortable tables are important for accessibility as they are often used as
> an accessible alternative to charts. Even when you can make a chart
> accessible, when you a huge number of data rows - you want a better way for
> an AT user to find the max/min values than walking all the data members.
> For instance, providing a sortable table will be more usable than having an
> accessible bar chart and forcing an AT user to walk 200 bars to find the
> top five bars. Personally, if I had to get the top five values from a huge
> bar chart I would prefer a sortable table as well.
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Fred Esch
> Watson, IBM, W3C Accessibility
> [image: IBM Watson] Watson Release Management and Quality
>
> [image: Inactive hide details for Steve Faulkner ---01/29/2016 04:58:04
> PM---On 29 January 2016 at 20:07, Fred Esch <fesch@us.ibm.com>]Steve
> Faulkner ---01/29/2016 04:58:04 PM---On 29 January 2016 at 20:07, Fred Esch
> <fesch@us.ibm.com <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','fesch@us.ibm.com');>>
> wrote: > A table element can have a *'sort
>
> From: Steve Faulkner <faulkner.steve@gmail.com
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','faulkner.steve@gmail.com');>>
> To: Fred Esch/Arlington/IBM@IBMUS
> Cc: Matt King <a11ythinker@gmail.com
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','a11ythinker@gmail.com');>>, Accessible Rich
> Internet Applications Working Group <public-aria@w3.org
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','public-aria@w3.org');>>
> Date: 01/29/2016 04:58 PM
> Subject: Re: grids vs sortable tables
> ------------------------------
>
>
>
>
> On 29 January 2016 at 20:07, Fred Esch <*fesch@us.ibm.com*
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','fesch@us.ibm.com');>> wrote:
>
>    A table element can have a *'sortable'* attribute which designates you
>    can sort on columns.
>
>
>
> note the table sorting algorithm and associated attribute have been
> removed from the whatwg HTML spec due to a lack of implementer interest and
> suggest the same fate will befall this feature in W3C HTML, sooner rather
> than later.
>
> --
>
> Regards
>
> SteveF
> *Current Standards Work @W3C*
> <http://www.paciellogroup.com/blog/2015/03/current-standards-work-at-w3c/>
>
>

-- 
--

Regards

SteveF
Current Standards Work @W3C
<http://www.paciellogroup.com/blog/2015/03/current-standards-work-at-w3c/>

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Received on Monday, 1 February 2016 22:50:59 UTC

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