Minutes from 15 December

Minutes from the ARIA teleconference of 15 December are provided below as
text. They're also available as hypertext at:

http://www.w3.org/2016/12/15-aria-minutes.html


   W3C

                                                                                   - DRAFT -

                                                      Accessible Rich Internet Applications Working Group Teleconference

15 Dec 2016

   See also: IRC log

Attendees

   Present
          Janina, ShaneM, Stefan, jongund, Rich_Schwerdtfeger, Joseph_Scheuhammer, matt_king, MichielBijl

   Regrets
   Chair
          Rich

   Scribe
          janina

Contents

     * Topics
         1. Updates
         2. Testing
         3. ARIA in HTML
     * Summary of Action Items
     * Summary of Resolutions
     _________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

   <richardschwerdtfeger> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-aria/2016Dec/0022.html

   <ShaneM> I will be on the call shortly.

   <scribe> scribe: janina

   <ShaneM> Yay janina!

Updates

   rs: We have Microsoft mappings fo dpub aam core aam
   ... All mappings for dpub are in
   ... Some Apple still missing for core
   ... Grphics module roles are in the validator now

   stefan: Steve Faulkner says ARIA now also in validator

   rs: So, pieces are coming together
   ... Major next step is testing
   ... Chrome is making good progress in ARIA support
   ... Roadblock is getting remaining platforms on the test harness

Testing

   jg: Last scheduled meeting, I was the only one present
   ... Shane and Joanie are doing most of the work
   ... Got regrets from Ms; Joanie was on vacation
   ... Happy to reschedule

   rs: Should we use this call?

   jg: We need the at test adaptors
   ... I'll mail Joanie and ask about working on Mac test adaptor with Craig

   sm: I know it's not started, we're talking Monday on what next steps are

   rs: Suggest we do coord during this call

   jg: Hoping to get student helpers next semester
   ... I have time, meanwhile, to get things going
   ... Shane, I'd like to sit in in the call with Joanie

   sm: OK, nothing scheduled yet, will followup
   ... I've been asked to wait on ATTA changes because of some W3C backend changes
   ... ATTA driver is complete and works well
   ... Some things like focus change we can't do--so we'll find another way
   ... Perhaps via web driver--we'll see
   ... ATK support is complete--almost
   ... We haven't heard from Ms on UIA yet
   ... We have good contact in Mozilla and Google

   rs: I'm working to get Freedom Scientific and NVDA involved with us
   ... Google is aggressively implementing in Canary

ARIA in HTML

   rs: Seems we haven't fully addressed the address element--seems like contentinfo

   jg: Default mapping is contentinfo, probably none
   ... Perhaps region?

   mk: NO!

   rs: No

   mk: Prefer implied role being none
   ... If we had a <p> role, we could put some things there
   ... We need two kinds of elements/roles with these generics

   <clown> https://w3c.github.io/html/grouping-content.html#the-address-element

   mk: accessible block

   <jongund> https://www.w3.org/wiki/ARIA_in_HTML_Comments

   mk: accessible inline thingie
   ... block, perhaps "chunck" some word like that
   ... spans don't cause multiple nodes, so can be strung together
   ... But not divs
   ... ditto paras

   <ShaneM> What if the spans had explicit roles? would there be different chunks?

   rs: Probably will with 1.2, so could do something like this
   ... We could say: "No AIA mapping"

   jg: We do that in other cases

   rs: Let's say no mapping, add note that we'll create in 1.2
   ... Michael, can we have a generic block issue? Refer to HTML Address

   <Zakim> clown, you wanted to say that there is a new meaning for <address>

   mk: So question is there a difference between block and paragraph
   ... Right now, no
   ... Often divs are used where it should really be <p>
   ... And next para key doesn't work, but in some AT it does
   ... I don't see a semantic difference between div and p

   <ShaneM> It would be interesting to hear what DPub has to say about this

   mc: Issue-474 ...
   ... Consider whether this needs to be generic block role

   jg: What about dt? Currently list item

   rs: Think term

   mk: Term can be used outside of list, yes?

   <jongund> JG: Do TERM and DEFINITION need to support posinset and setsixe?

   <jongund> JG: Since they can be part of a definition list (DL)

   sm: dl is ordered list notionally, but does order matter? can have multiple dt
   ... So how does position matter?

   mk: I guess I'm conventional, dt dd dt dd etc
   ... but dt with multiple dd?

   sm: Yes

   mk: Interesting

   rs: so no set pos

   mk: But no role for dl .. Is it really list?

   sm: Correct no explicit role, and believe there should be
   ... I tag as glossary

   rs: Should have note about multiple definitions for single term ---

   jg: It was just my question
   ... We don't have a way to indicate which one you're on

   mk: No screen readers that distinguish between def and term
   ... Maybe they will now that we distinguish
   ... Maybe term and definition are correct, even without pos and set
   ... We use same role for ol and ul

   rs: Isn't css styling used to convert name computation?

   mk: yes for numbered lists
   ... Sometimes you can tell where the next one begins, sometimes not. Not sure why
   ... Think John's proposal is correct

   rs: But, the container, is it list?

   mk: yes

   rs: Contains a child?

   mk: Doesn't say allowed, just has it has these things
   ... says "list item or group
   ... So we want to change list

   rs: Another issue?

   mc: List should also be able to take term definition

   mk: In list role for required owned elements, we want to add term and definition

   sm: There's no way to link terms and definitions together semantically, and there should be. How do we do that?

   mk: Just by their order?
   ... Points to usage

   sm: But not required and we don't require anything

   mk: Can't tell the difference yet with an sr
   ... Don't see this as an important issue

   rs: So, think for dl -- add a note that we'll add dt and dd to lists

   <jongund> my phone cut out for some reason

   <Zakim> ShaneM, you wanted to ask why the position matters?

   mk: Aha, JFW does acknowledge them

   rs: So, no pos and set, but going to add term and definition as descendants of list in ARIA 1.2
   ... Also support multiple definitions per term

   sm: I tried to use describedby to link terms to definitions in respec
   ... It's a way to link semantically without a role

   rs: Multiple describedby ids would be concatinated, so not a good idea

   mk: Shane, are you putting it on term?
   ... Not sure we want that relationship. Too much verbosity
   ... JFW is distinguishing dl from other lists, so we should investigate further

   rs: Either way? Is there consensus for a separate role?

   [crickets]

   mc: I would tend to lean towards yes

   sm: Didn't we add glossary role in dpub?
   ... Couldn't one put that on a dl? If they wanted it to be glossary?

   mk: Perhaps like at beginning of Sec 5.4 in the ARIA spec--a list with all roles
   ... Could be strange as a glossary

   sm: I don't mean implicit role

   mk: Aha!

   <clown> https://w3c.github.io/aria/dpub-aam/dpub-aam.html#role-map-glossary

   rs: This could be interesting, because refers to another module

   mc: Perhaps a path for moving dpub roles into main ARIA

   rs: If we really want
   ... OK, let's say we'll create a glossary role ...

   mk: No, not instead of a dl
   ... In addition to, yes, but not instead of

   sm: Agree

   rs: So we'll create a definition list role --

   <ShaneM> role="definitions"

   rs: Is that it?

   jg: Yes!
   ... We covered other items last week

   jn: Thought I had an action to look at all these

   mk: Yes, for 1.2

   <ShaneM> BTW there is a role of definition that is already part of our namespace

   rs: So, we're set!

   <ShaneM> From the XHTML role module in w3.org/1999/xhtml/vocab

   <jongund> https://github.com/w3c/html-aria/issues/57

   <jongund> https://github.com/w3c/html-aria/issues/58

   mb: Will have my review complete by first week January

   rs: So we should wait for any additional comments to make

   <jongund> 1+

   <jongund> +1

   <jamesn> +1

   <ShaneM> I am sitting in a bar right now

   <ShaneM> cheers

   rs: Thaking everyone for an awesome job this year, and best TPAC ever
   ... Looks like Amelia can Chair for SVG TF
   ... Happy Hollidays, All!

Summary of Action Items

Summary of Resolutions

   [End of minutes]
     _________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Found Scribe: janina
Present: Janina ShaneM Stefan jongund Rich_Schwerdtfeger Joseph_Scheuhammer matt_king MichielBijl


-- 

Janina Sajka,	Phone:	+1.443.300.2200
			sip:janina@asterisk.rednote.net
		Email:	janina@rednote.net

Linux Foundation Fellow
Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup:	http://a11y.org

The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI)
Chair, Accessible Platform Architectures	http://www.w3.org/wai/apa

Received on Thursday, 15 December 2016 18:58:59 UTC