- From: Joanmarie Diggs <jdiggs@igalia.com>
- Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2016 16:23:13 -0400
- To: ARIA Working Group <public-aria@w3.org>
- Cc: "wai-xtech@w3.org" <wai-xtech@w3.org>
URL: https://www.w3.org/2016/04/05-aapi-minutes.html
Plain text follows:
[1]W3C
[1] http://www.w3.org/
Accessible Rich Internet Applications Working Group Teleconference
05 Apr 2016
See also: [2]IRC log
[2] http://www.w3.org/2016/04/05-aapi-irc
Attendees
Present
Joanmarie_Diggs, Rich_Schwerdtfeger, Joseph_Scheuhammer,
Bryan_Garaventa
Regrets
Cynthia_Shelly
Chair
Joseph_Scheuhammer
Scribe
joanie
Contents
* [3]Topics
1. [4]ACTION-2008 (Cynthia/Joseph) Handle concept of
description property for UIA - merged, final review.
2. [5]ACTION-1569/ACTION-2032/ISSUE-540 (Cynthia/Jason)
Section on AAPI differences - merged, final review.
3. [6]ACTION-2012/ACTION-2013 (Joseph, Cynthia) UIA
mappings for landmark roles, pull request merged:
https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/272 — close?
4. [7]agenda+ ACTION-2041 (Joseph/James) AXAPI mapping
for role="application", specifically change
AXLandmarkApplication subrole.
5. [8]ACTION-1668 (Rich/Alex) Add IA2_ROLE_LANDMARK for
IA2.
6. [9]ACTION-1541 (Joseph/Joanie) AXAPI mapping for
aria-modal property -- update progress.
* [10]Summary of Action Items
* [11]Summary of Resolutions
__________________________________________________________
<clown> agenda: this
<scribe> scribe: joanie
<clown>
[12]http://clown.idrc.ocad.ca/Fluid/aria/TextInputPassword.html
[12] http://clown.idrc.ocad.ca/Fluid/aria/TextInputPassword.html
ACTION-2008 (Cynthia/Joseph) Handle concept of description property
for UIA - merged, final review.
<clown> action-2008?
<trackbot> action-2008 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Handle concept
of description property for UIA -- due 2016-03-01 --
PENDINGREVIEW
<trackbot> [13]http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/2008
[13] http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/2008
JS: You all should have a look at this even though Cynthia is
not here.
<clown>
[14]https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#a
ccessible-names-and-descriptions
[14]
https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#accessible-names-and-descriptions
JS: I did want her approval.
... If you first go to the above URL in the Core AAM.
... In the fourth paragraph, it says (Joseph reads)
RS: MSAA does?
JS: That's my question.
... This is Cynthia's text.
RS: I believe she's got it wrong.
... This is a UIA property.
JS: I'll ask Cynthia about that.
<clown>
[15]https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#a
riaDescribedBy
[15]
https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#ariaDescribedBy
JS: Next place to go is the above URL.
... The first sentence is new.
RS: (Reads text)
... Do they have the reverse relationships in UIA?
JS: I don't know.
... I don't think so, but I'm not sure
RS: I think they should, but what does Joanie think?
JD: It depends.
RS: Where I think it matters is with things like aria-details.
... You need to go back.
JS: But then that's a platform issue; not a spec issue.
RS: I think they should consider this.
... It might be a performance problem, but at the end of the
day....
... Can we raise an issue for this?
... This is new API on the platform, but can we raise it?
JS: Sure. Why not?
... The issue we're looking at (here at this meeting) is the
addition of the sentence for the new UIA description property.
RS: Do you want me to send Cynthia an email?
JS: Yes please. If she replies that the reverse relationship
exists, then we can open an issue against the Core AAM.
... I will ask Cynthia about the reference to MSAA.
... And close this action.
... If need be I'll open a new action.
ACTION-1569/ACTION-2032/ISSUE-540 (Cynthia/Jason) Section on AAPI
differences - merged, final review.
<clown> action-1569?
<trackbot> action-1569 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Create a
section that describes AAPI differences -- due 2016-02-23 --
PENDINGREVIEW
<trackbot> [16]http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1569
[16] http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1569
JS: Jason and Cynthia wanted to add a section about API
differences.
... They gave me text. I've added it in.
... I need them to confirm what I've done is what they want.
... We have three actions pending review, waiting for them to
respond.
... The section in question is:
<clown>
[17]https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#c
omparing-accessibility-apis
[17]
https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#comparing-accessibility-apis
JS: There's a little blurb about each platform.
... And also about name and descriptions and the API
differences.
... Do we want to discuss this any further today?
RS: (Reads)
JS: IA2 is not mentioned anywhere.
RS: And it's used in a couple of browsers: Chrome and Firefox.
JS and RS: On Windows.
JS: Anything you want to say about it?
RS: It's very similar to ATK/AT-SPI2 in terms of the
information it provides.
... The client/server situation for GNU/Linux is different.
... Perhaps we should make a statement about IA2 being similar,
but lacking that client and provider relation.
JS: At this point, I just want to leave it alone.
RS: This is not a normative section.
... But what you probably should do.... You have this first
sentence. It should probably be outside the first paragraph.
... Then go into Linux/GNOME stuff.
... You bury them in the ATK/AT-SPI2 section.
... (Reads more)
... UIA actually does separate out a client and provider side.
... But they don't document the provider side.
... UIA is actually the client side.
JD: But you don't implement the client side. So who is reading
this?
RS: We're testing AT-SPI2; not ATK.
JS: I agree. And it depends who the audience is.
... User agent implementations care about ATK; testers about
AT-SPI2.
RS: UIA is only implemented by Microsoft, I believe.
... I hope we have convergence at some point.
... If we could create an API that's specific to the web as the
starting point, and go from there. That would be the right
thing to do. A lot easier, I would think.
JD: (Makes nitpicky clarification about "new API" versus "a new
API".)
RS: If you don't want to write an IA2 section, you could
reference all of them at the top.
... And then refer to it later (e.g. in ATK/AT-SPI2).
... Then if people really want an IA2 section, they can write
it. :)
JS: I'll do this. Though it won't be my top priority, given
other work I need to complete.
action-1659
<trackbot> Sorry, but action-1659 does not exist.
action-1569
<trackbot> action-1569 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Create a
section that describes AAPI differences -- due 2016-02-23 --
PENDINGREVIEW
<trackbot> [18]http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1569
[18] http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1569
JS: I'll add a comment to action-1569 to make this change.
ACTION-2012/ACTION-2013 (Joseph, Cynthia) UIA mappings for landmark
roles, pull request merged: [19]https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/272
— close?
[19] https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/272
JS: I'll skip this one.
... I merged her changes in.
agenda+ ACTION-2041 (Joseph/James) AXAPI mapping for
role="application", specifically change AXLandmarkApplication
subrole.
<clown> action-2041?
<trackbot> action-2041 -- James Craig to AXAPI: New subrole for
role="application" since 'AXLandmarkApplication' no longer
applies (application role no longer a landmark) -- due
2016-03-21 -- OPEN
<trackbot> [20]http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/2041
[20] http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/2041
<clown> [21]https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=155403
[21] https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=155403
JS: The role application is no longer a landmark, but it's been
mapped forever to AXLandmarkApplication.
... There is a bug in WebKit's bugzilla. (Link above)
... Nothing has happened since March 12th.
RS: Joanie, when you check with Apple about DPub, could you ask
about this bug?
JD: Sure.
<clown>
[22]https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#r
ole-map-application
[22]
https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#role-map-application
<clown>
[23]https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/aria/aria.html#applicati
on
[23] https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/aria/aria.html#application
<clown> "When there is a need to create an element with an
interaction model that is not supported by any of the WAI-ARIA
widget roles, authors MAY give that element role application. "
RS: What people were using role="application" for was to
indicate they would handle all application navigation.
<clown> "And, when a user navigates into an element with role
application, assistive technologies that intercept standard
input events SHOULD switch to a mode that passes most or all
standard input events through to the web application."
JS: So now that role="application" is no longer a landmark, the
current situation seems to be that it's going to have AXRole of
AXGroup, but the subrole will need to change.
RS: You still need to know it's interactive and not steal the
keys.
<clown> "Don't use AXApplication since that's reserved for
native apps."
RS: AXGroup won't accomplish that, so there needs to be a
subrole to communicate that.
JS: The text above is in the bug comment.
... Does AXAPI have an enumerated set of subroles, or can they
be created when needed?
JD: Not sure.
ACTION-1668 (Rich/Alex) Add IA2_ROLE_LANDMARK for IA2.
<clown> action-1668?
<trackbot> action-1668 -- Alexander Surkov to Add a
ia2_role_landmark to ia2. this will tell ats to look at the
xml-roles value for landmarks -- due 2015-07-07 -- OPEN
<trackbot> [24]http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1668
[24] http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1668
JS: This is one of yours, Rich.
RS: Me?
... They already said they'd do this.
JS: Really?
... Do you have a link to the discussion?
RS: I posted to the list awhile back.
JS: This is due on the 7th of July.
RS: I'm looking.
<Rich>
[25]https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-aria/2016Feb/03
75.html
[25] https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-aria/2016Feb/0375.html
RS: Here's the first post (above)
<Rich>
[26]https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-aria/2016Feb/03
80.html
[26] https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-aria/2016Feb/0380.html
RS: (Reads from above URL)
... So Jamie and Surkov have responded.
JS: But in that message, Jamie says that he'll leave it to
someone else to talk to the other screen reader vendors.
RS: I talked to Freedom Scientific. They seem fine with it.
... I'll check with Alex Surkov.
JS: I'll assign the issue to me.
ACTION-1541 (Joseph/Joanie) AXAPI mapping for aria-modal property --
update progress.
<clown> action-1541?
<trackbot> action-1541 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Investigate and
propose mappings for aria-modal property for axapi. -- due
2016-02-08 -- OPEN
<trackbot> [27]http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1541
[27] http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1541
JS: There is aria-modal and the mapping.
... Apple has implemented it already.
... Joanie investigated the mapping and provided a description
of what she found.
<clown>
[28]https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#a
riaModalTrue
[28]
https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#ariaModalTrue
JS: We have this slot in the mapping spec (above link).
... We have stuff in there for the other APIs, but nothing yet
for AXAPI.
... It appears that Apple is not so much exposing aria-modal as
they are pruning the rest of the tree.
... Is that correct, Joanie?
JD: That was my take. But I believe I also stated that I was
not Apple and that it would probably make sense to check with
Apple to be sure.
RS: What you are describing is really expensive.
... (Describes a viewport-based solution)
JS: Getting back to the previous question, we need to know what
AXAPI does.
<clown> [29]https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=138566#c23
[29] https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=138566#c23
JD: I just commented on the bug, asking Chris to provide the
official mapping for AXAPI's exposure of aria-modal.
Summary of Action Items
Summary of Resolutions
[End of minutes]
Received on Tuesday, 5 April 2016 20:23:54 UTC