[AAPI] Minutes UAI TF Meeting, Tuesday 5 April 2016

URL: https://www.w3.org/2016/04/05-aapi-minutes.html

Plain text follows:

   [1]W3C

      [1] http://www.w3.org/

   Accessible Rich Internet Applications Working Group Teleconference

05 Apr 2016

   See also: [2]IRC log

      [2] http://www.w3.org/2016/04/05-aapi-irc

Attendees

   Present
          Joanmarie_Diggs, Rich_Schwerdtfeger, Joseph_Scheuhammer,
          Bryan_Garaventa

   Regrets
          Cynthia_Shelly

   Chair
          Joseph_Scheuhammer

   Scribe
          joanie

Contents

     * [3]Topics
         1. [4]ACTION-2008 (Cynthia/Joseph) Handle concept of
            description property for UIA - merged, final review.
         2. [5]ACTION-1569/ACTION-2032/ISSUE-540 (Cynthia/Jason)
            Section on AAPI differences - merged, final review.
         3. [6]ACTION-2012/ACTION-2013 (Joseph, Cynthia) UIA
            mappings for landmark roles, pull request merged:
            https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/272 — close?
         4. [7]agenda+ ACTION-2041 (Joseph/James) AXAPI mapping
            for role="application", specifically change
            AXLandmarkApplication subrole.
         5. [8]ACTION-1668 (Rich/Alex) Add IA2_ROLE_LANDMARK for
            IA2.
         6. [9]ACTION-1541 (Joseph/Joanie) AXAPI mapping for
            aria-modal property -- update progress.
     * [10]Summary of Action Items
     * [11]Summary of Resolutions
     __________________________________________________________

   <clown> agenda: this

   <scribe> scribe: joanie

   <clown>
   [12]http://clown.idrc.ocad.ca/Fluid/aria/TextInputPassword.html

     [12] http://clown.idrc.ocad.ca/Fluid/aria/TextInputPassword.html

ACTION-2008 (Cynthia/Joseph) Handle concept of description property
for UIA - merged, final review.

   <clown> action-2008?

   <trackbot> action-2008 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Handle concept
   of description property for UIA -- due 2016-03-01 --
   PENDINGREVIEW

   <trackbot> [13]http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/2008

     [13] http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/2008

   JS: You all should have a look at this even though Cynthia is
   not here.

   <clown>
   [14]https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#a
   ccessible-names-and-descriptions

     [14]
https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#accessible-names-and-descriptions

   JS: I did want her approval.
   ... If you first go to the above URL in the Core AAM.
   ... In the fourth paragraph, it says (Joseph reads)

   RS: MSAA does?

   JS: That's my question.
   ... This is Cynthia's text.

   RS: I believe she's got it wrong.
   ... This is a UIA property.

   JS: I'll ask Cynthia about that.

   <clown>
   [15]https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#a
   riaDescribedBy

     [15]
https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#ariaDescribedBy

   JS: Next place to go is the above URL.
   ... The first sentence is new.

   RS: (Reads text)
   ... Do they have the reverse relationships in UIA?

   JS: I don't know.
   ... I don't think so, but I'm not sure

   RS: I think they should, but what does Joanie think?

   JD: It depends.

   RS: Where I think it matters is with things like aria-details.
   ... You need to go back.

   JS: But then that's a platform issue; not a spec issue.

   RS: I think they should consider this.
   ... It might be a performance problem, but at the end of the
   day....
   ... Can we raise an issue for this?
   ... This is new API on the platform, but can we raise it?

   JS: Sure. Why not?
   ... The issue we're looking at (here at this meeting) is the
   addition of the sentence for the new UIA description property.

   RS: Do you want me to send Cynthia an email?

   JS: Yes please. If she replies that the reverse relationship
   exists, then we can open an issue against the Core AAM.
   ... I will ask Cynthia about the reference to MSAA.
   ... And close this action.
   ... If need be I'll open a new action.

ACTION-1569/ACTION-2032/ISSUE-540 (Cynthia/Jason) Section on AAPI
differences - merged, final review.

   <clown> action-1569?

   <trackbot> action-1569 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Create a
   section that describes AAPI differences -- due 2016-02-23 --
   PENDINGREVIEW

   <trackbot> [16]http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1569

     [16] http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1569

   JS: Jason and Cynthia wanted to add a section about API
   differences.
   ... They gave me text. I've added it in.
   ... I need them to confirm what I've done is what they want.
   ... We have three actions pending review, waiting for them to
   respond.
   ... The section in question is:

   <clown>
   [17]https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#c
   omparing-accessibility-apis

     [17]
https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#comparing-accessibility-apis

   JS: There's a little blurb about each platform.
   ... And also about name and descriptions and the API
   differences.
   ... Do we want to discuss this any further today?

   RS: (Reads)

   JS: IA2 is not mentioned anywhere.

   RS: And it's used in a couple of browsers: Chrome and Firefox.

   JS and RS: On Windows.

   JS: Anything you want to say about it?

   RS: It's very similar to ATK/AT-SPI2 in terms of the
   information it provides.
   ... The client/server situation for GNU/Linux is different.
   ... Perhaps we should make a statement about IA2 being similar,
   but lacking that client and provider relation.

   JS: At this point, I just want to leave it alone.

   RS: This is not a normative section.
   ... But what you probably should do.... You have this first
   sentence. It should probably be outside the first paragraph.
   ... Then go into Linux/GNOME stuff.
   ... You bury them in the ATK/AT-SPI2 section.
   ... (Reads more)
   ... UIA actually does separate out a client and provider side.
   ... But they don't document the provider side.
   ... UIA is actually the client side.

   JD: But you don't implement the client side. So who is reading
   this?

   RS: We're testing AT-SPI2; not ATK.

   JS: I agree. And it depends who the audience is.
   ... User agent implementations care about ATK; testers about
   AT-SPI2.

   RS: UIA is only implemented by Microsoft, I believe.
   ... I hope we have convergence at some point.
   ... If we could create an API that's specific to the web as the
   starting point, and go from there. That would be the right
   thing to do. A lot easier, I would think.

   JD: (Makes nitpicky clarification about "new API" versus "a new
   API".)

   RS: If you don't want to write an IA2 section, you could
   reference all of them at the top.
   ... And then refer to it later (e.g. in ATK/AT-SPI2).
   ... Then if people really want an IA2 section, they can write
   it. :)

   JS: I'll do this. Though it won't be my top priority, given
   other work I need to complete.

   action-1659

   <trackbot> Sorry, but action-1659 does not exist.

   action-1569

   <trackbot> action-1569 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Create a
   section that describes AAPI differences -- due 2016-02-23 --
   PENDINGREVIEW

   <trackbot> [18]http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1569

     [18] http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1569

   JS: I'll add a comment to action-1569 to make this change.

ACTION-2012/ACTION-2013 (Joseph, Cynthia) UIA mappings for landmark
roles, pull request merged: [19]https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/272
— close?

     [19] https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/272

   JS: I'll skip this one.
   ... I merged her changes in.

agenda+ ACTION-2041 (Joseph/James) AXAPI mapping for
role="application", specifically change AXLandmarkApplication
subrole.

   <clown> action-2041?

   <trackbot> action-2041 -- James Craig to AXAPI: New subrole for
   role="application" since 'AXLandmarkApplication' no longer
   applies (application role no longer a landmark) -- due
   2016-03-21 -- OPEN

   <trackbot> [20]http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/2041

     [20] http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/2041

   <clown> [21]https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=155403

     [21] https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=155403

   JS: The role application is no longer a landmark, but it's been
   mapped forever to AXLandmarkApplication.
   ... There is a bug in WebKit's bugzilla. (Link above)
   ... Nothing has happened since March 12th.

   RS: Joanie, when you check with Apple about DPub, could you ask
   about this bug?

   JD: Sure.

   <clown>
   [22]https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#r
   ole-map-application

     [22]
https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#role-map-application

   <clown>
   [23]https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/aria/aria.html#applicati
   on

     [23] https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/aria/aria.html#application

   <clown> "When there is a need to create an element with an
   interaction model that is not supported by any of the WAI-ARIA
   widget roles, authors MAY give that element role application. "

   RS: What people were using role="application" for was to
   indicate they would handle all application navigation.

   <clown> "And, when a user navigates into an element with role
   application, assistive technologies that intercept standard
   input events SHOULD switch to a mode that passes most or all
   standard input events through to the web application."

   JS: So now that role="application" is no longer a landmark, the
   current situation seems to be that it's going to have AXRole of
   AXGroup, but the subrole will need to change.

   RS: You still need to know it's interactive and not steal the
   keys.

   <clown> "Don't use AXApplication since that's reserved for
   native apps."

   RS: AXGroup won't accomplish that, so there needs to be a
   subrole to communicate that.

   JS: The text above is in the bug comment.
   ... Does AXAPI have an enumerated set of subroles, or can they
   be created when needed?

   JD: Not sure.

ACTION-1668 (Rich/Alex) Add IA2_ROLE_LANDMARK for IA2.

   <clown> action-1668?

   <trackbot> action-1668 -- Alexander Surkov to Add a
   ia2_role_landmark to ia2. this will tell ats to look at the
   xml-roles value for landmarks -- due 2015-07-07 -- OPEN

   <trackbot> [24]http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1668

     [24] http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1668

   JS: This is one of yours, Rich.

   RS: Me?
   ... They already said they'd do this.

   JS: Really?
   ... Do you have a link to the discussion?

   RS: I posted to the list awhile back.

   JS: This is due on the 7th of July.

   RS: I'm looking.

   <Rich>
   [25]https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-aria/2016Feb/03
   75.html

     [25] https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-aria/2016Feb/0375.html

   RS: Here's the first post (above)

   <Rich>
   [26]https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-aria/2016Feb/03
   80.html

     [26] https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-aria/2016Feb/0380.html

   RS: (Reads from above URL)
   ... So Jamie and Surkov have responded.

   JS: But in that message, Jamie says that he'll leave it to
   someone else to talk to the other screen reader vendors.

   RS: I talked to Freedom Scientific. They seem fine with it.
   ... I'll check with Alex Surkov.

   JS: I'll assign the issue to me.

ACTION-1541 (Joseph/Joanie) AXAPI mapping for aria-modal property --
update progress.

   <clown> action-1541?

   <trackbot> action-1541 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Investigate and
   propose mappings for aria-modal property for axapi. -- due
   2016-02-08 -- OPEN

   <trackbot> [27]http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1541

     [27] http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1541

   JS: There is aria-modal and the mapping.
   ... Apple has implemented it already.
   ... Joanie investigated the mapping and provided a description
   of what she found.

   <clown>
   [28]https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#a
   riaModalTrue

     [28]
https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#ariaModalTrue

   JS: We have this slot in the mapping spec (above link).
   ... We have stuff in there for the other APIs, but nothing yet
   for AXAPI.
   ... It appears that Apple is not so much exposing aria-modal as
   they are pruning the rest of the tree.
   ... Is that correct, Joanie?

   JD: That was my take. But I believe I also stated that I was
   not Apple and that it would probably make sense to check with
   Apple to be sure.

   RS: What you are describing is really expensive.
   ... (Describes a viewport-based solution)

   JS: Getting back to the previous question, we need to know what
   AXAPI does.

   <clown> [29]https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=138566#c23

     [29] https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=138566#c23

   JD: I just commented on the bug, asking Chris to provide the
   official mapping for AXAPI's exposure of aria-modal.

Summary of Action Items

Summary of Resolutions

   [End of minutes]

Received on Tuesday, 5 April 2016 20:23:54 UTC