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Re: Archive Collection and Archived Item

From: Jane Stevenson <Jane.Stevenson@jisc.ac.uk>
Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2017 14:29:42 +0000
To: Giovanni Michetti <giovanni.michetti@ubc.ca>, public-architypes <public-architypes@w3.org>
CC: Richard Wallis <richard.wallis@dataliberate.com>
Message-ID: <3348AABF-FC1D-4055-9B74-7E7F5313EE5F@jisc.ac.uk>
I did worry about this to start with, but I don’t think it matters that is is classed under ‘intangible’ as I don’t think that impacts in terms of the role of schema.org.  I think its a case of trying to use what is there and that’s the best fit, even if its not an entire fit. We don’t want to create our own higher level classes just for archives. 

> the definition reads "an item in an archival collection", so it is an item indeed. 

I think maybe that’s misleading. I don’t think its an item I think its the concept of a part of an archive, kind of thing :-)

I would definitely vote for changing the name and the definition, to avoid confusion. 

cheers
Jane






> On 11 Apr 2017, at 15:08, Giovanni Michetti <giovanni.michetti@ubc.ca> wrote:
> 
> I don't know, Jane. Somehow I get the vague idea behind this solution, anyway it doesn't seem just a problem of names--the definition reads "an item in an archival collection", so it is an item indeed. Since it is under Intangible, it is intangible too. Which leads to a further doubt--where should we put the tangible archival item?
> 
> The overall picture is a bit confusing...
> 
> Giovanni
> 
> 
> 
> Il 11/04/2017 15:55, Jane Stevenson ha scritto:
>> I think I do get ‘ArchivedItem’ now - I just didn’t for a while because I kept equating it to a real archival item.
>> If I forget the name and just think of it as ‘X’ then I can see that it's just something to hang properties from that we think might be specific to archives. I think its kind of as simple as that….?  But that’s why its probably best to drop ‘item’ - I know the name doesn't matter, but I think its confusing.
>> Jane.
>>> On 11 Apr 2017, at 14:46, Giovanni Michetti <giovanni.michetti@ubc.ca> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Richard,
>>> 
>>> thank you for further explanation.
>>> 
>>> I'm sorry, but I still don't get your point.
>>> 
>>> ArchivedItem is "an item in an archival collection", so it is included in an archival collection by definition. Putting ArchiveCollection as a sub-class of ArchivedItem, means that ArchiveCollection is a type of ArchivedItem, which is not consistent with the definition of ArchiveCollection ("A collection and/or archive of physical or digital items").
>>> 
>>> From your words, I understand that your choice was driven by the need for specific properties. If that's the case, I wonder why we can't simply extend the properties of Thing, or find anyway some other solution.
>>> 
>>> Giovanni
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Il 11/04/2017 14:45, Richard Wallis ha scritto:
>>>> Hi Giovanni,
>>>> Your view of the generic nature of ArchiveCollection (/Therefore, a fonds, a series, a subseries, a collection, a set of sparsed objects may all be subsumed under ArchiveCollection according to the its definition/.) is what I had in mind when I made the original proposal.
>>>> Both Jane and you express confusion as to why ArchiveCollection is a sub-class of ArchivedItem, which is initially understandable.  The reason I proposed it that way is to make pragmatic use of the way Schema.org is constructed.
>>>> ArchivedItem <http://archive.sdo-archive.appspot.com/ArchivedItem>, when added as an additionalType of any other Thing (CreativeWork, Product, whatever) effectively makes available properties to describe attributes of its membership in an archive (provenance, accessAndUse, itemCondition, location, transfer, etc.).   If the Type of Thing is unknown ArchivedItem could potentially be used as the only Schema Type.
>>>> When looking to describe an ArchiveCollection, the majority of those properties would also be of use in its description.  To achieve this the proposal could have either individually added these properties to ArchivedCollction or, as I proposed, just make it a subtype of ArchiveCollection.
>>>> ~Richard.
>>>> Richard Wallis
>>>> Founder, Data Liberate
>>>> http://dataliberate.com

>>>> Linkedin: http://www.linkedin.com/in/richardwallis

>>>> Twitter: @rjw
>>>> On 11 April 2017 at 13:06, Giovanni Michetti <giovanni.michetti@ubc.ca <mailto:giovanni.michetti@ubc.ca>> wrote:
>>>>    Hi Jane,
>>>>    I would stick to the definition of ArchiveCollection, which is "A
>>>>    collection and/or archive of physical or digital items."
>>>>    (http://archive.sdo-archive.appspot.com/ArchiveCollection

>>>>    <http://archive.sdo-archive.appspot.com/ArchiveCollection>).
>>>>    The Archival Extension doesn't define what an archive is (as a set
>>>>    of objects--an archive is either an institution or an organization,
>>>>    according to the definition of Archive). However, it is quite clear
>>>>    that the definition of ArchiveCollection intends to cover any
>>>>    aggregation of items, that is, the term 'archive' in the definition
>>>>    is used in a very generic sense. Therefore, a fonds, a series, a
>>>>    subseries, a collection, a set of sparsed objects may all be
>>>>    subsumed under ArchiveCollection according to the its definition.
>>>>    Using a single class to identify any type of aggregations (including
>>>>    no aggregation at all) is consistent with the most relevant archival
>>>>    standards: ISAD uses "Unit of description" and EAD uses "Component".
>>>>    Recently, ICA proposed a draft model (RiC) where they identified two
>>>>    classes, Record and RecordSet (along with RecordComponent), which is
>>>>    a bit different from the other models, yet is based on a single
>>>>    class identifying any aggregation--that is, no need for fonds,
>>>>    series, etc.
>>>>    We can discuss whether we need to distinguish between the single
>>>>    item and its aggregations, or it is better to just stick to a
>>>>    simpler model, ie "Component" like in EAD. However, going to your
>>>>    questions, I don't see any problem in considering both your examples
>>>>    as being instantiated under ArchiveCollection. The same for the
>>>>    properties.
>>>>    I don't understand very well why ArchiveCollection is a sub-class of
>>>>    ArchivedItem in the Extension, so I share your doubts.
>>>>    As I wrote in some earlier message, I have many doubts about this
>>>>    model. For this reason, I started investigating it further with some
>>>>    colleagues of InterPARES Trust, in order to provide some systematic
>>>>    comments on the Archival Extension. My aim is to share the comments
>>>>    in a month.
>>>>    Regards
>>>>    Giovanni
>>>>    Il 11/04/2017 11:16, Jane Stevenson ha scritto:
>>>>        Hi there,
>>>>        I had a huge email written as I was working this out, but I’ve
>>>>        tried my best to distill it down to one essential question…..
>>>>        There is a type ‘ArchiveCollection', which has ’super types’ of
>>>>        CreativeWork’ and ‘ArchivedItem’ with properties we can use to
>>>>        describe our thing(s).
>>>>        To take an example, let’s say I wanted to have schema.org
>>>>        <http://schema.org> markup attached to:
>>>>        A collection or ‘top level’ description:
>>>>        https://archiveshub.jisc.ac.uk/data/gb2607-ec/1-12

>>>>        <https://archiveshub.jisc.ac.uk/data/gb2607-ec/1-12>
>>>>        A lower level description:
>>>>        https://archiveshub.jisc.ac.uk/data/gb2607-ec/1-12/ec/7

>>>>        <https://archiveshub.jisc.ac.uk/data/gb2607-ec/1-12/ec/7>
>>>>        All I know about these are that one is ‘top level’ so that there
>>>>        are no parent levels above it, but there may be child levels.
>>>>        The other is lower level, so it has at least one parent level.
>>>>        Can I just treat the lower level ’thing(s)' as
>>>>        type=ArchiveCollection? So, I can I use the properties from
>>>>        CreativeWork and ArchivedItem for both the top level and lower
>>>>        level group of stuff?
>>>>        I don’t want to distinguish between collection and item actually
>>>>        within the archive; I just want to apply schema.org
>>>>        <http://schema.org> markup using the appropriate types and
>>>>        associated properties.
>>>>        Richard defined Collection:
>>>>        “ArchiveCollection: The collection/grouping/assemblage of
>>>>        archived items. Descriptive properties reference the collection
>>>>        as a whole.”
>>>>        I want to separate this out from what archivist thing of as an
>>>>        archive collection, and treat it simply as a ‘group of things’
>>>>        or even just one thing if that represents a stand-alone
>>>>        collection. Is this correct?
>>>>        The archive.schema.org <http://archive.schema.org> defines
>>>>        ‘ArchivedItem’ as ‘an item in an archive collection’. But I
>>>>        thought it was a ‘type' that is applied to ArchiveCollection? I
>>>>        didn’t think it actually related to ‘item’ meaning a single thing.
>>>>        I think there is some confusion in the documentation between the
>>>>        term ‘ArchivedItem’, which I understand to be a type that can be
>>>>        applied to an ArchiveCollection, with properties of
>>>>        ‘archive-ness’,  and an actual item in a collection (and we
>>>>        don’t usually describe single items anyway). It maybe doesn’t
>>>>        help that the properties within ArchivedItem are ‘item’ - e.g.
>>>>        itemDescription, itemLocation, itemProvenance. Can I see them as
>>>>        archiveunitDescription, archiveunitLocation, archiveunitProvenance.
>>>>        NB - that’s why in EAD we use ‘unit’ and not anything like
>>>>        ‘item’  - because we can only know that it is a unit within a whole.
>>>>        cheers
>>>>        Jane
>>>>        Jisc is a registered charity (number 1149740) and a company
>>>>        limited by guarantee which is registered in England under
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>>>>        office is: One Castlepark, Tower Hill, Bristol, BS2 0JA. T 0203
>>>>        697 5800.
>>>>        Jisc Services Limited is a wholly owned Jisc subsidiary and a
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>>>>        registered office is: One Castle Park, Tower Hill, Bristol BS2
>>>>        0JA. T 0203 697 5800.
>>> 
> 

Received on Tuesday, 11 April 2017 14:30:20 UTC

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