- From: Matthew Atkinson <m.atkinson@samsung.com>
- Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2025 17:20:00 -0000
- To: "'W3C WAI Accessible Platform Architectures'" <public-apa@w3.org>
- Cc: "'Paul Grenier'" <pgrenier@gmail.com>
Dear colleagues, Please find below my draft of a comment from us about CSS inert. This I hope reflects the discussion. I intend to post it this week. A couple of notes: 0. Please check it out and let us know what you think, via this thread. 1. We need examples of non-APG carousels. 2. I have not included Chiara's (very interesting) DevTools suggestion, because I think we are at the stage of having concerns about this feature being added at all. However, later in the discussion (and to perhaps complement HTML's inert attribute, which also doesn't affect styling), would be a good time to convey Chiara's suggestion. Propose comment coming up at the end of this message, below. Thanks again for all of your input. best regards, Matthew The Accessible Platform Architectures (APA) WG has reviewed this proposal too, and has some concerns and questions. We're very supportive of the trend to move widgets/features into CSS and HTML, and away from needing JS to work. There have been lots of accessibility wins because of this. We appreciate this carousel (and foundational) work has similar goals. Though carousels present several significant usability and accessibility challenges, they are widely used, so the goal of making them more consistent, accessible, and efficient is laudable. * We're concerned that modifying the interactivity of elements, without modifying their visual presentation, will lead to developers accidentally rendering sub-trees of the DOM inert. Whilst this sort of mistake may seem low-risk, speaking as an accessibility consultant, we see a lot of mistakes along these lines, where the visual and non-visual go out-of-synch. It's a significant risk, and significant consequences. * In the same vein, we echo the concerns about 'un-inerting' - that it would not be obvious to developers who've purposely 'inerted' a sub-tree that part of that sub-tree has been un-inerted. @alice's [suggestion of limiting 'un-inerting' to the top layer](https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/pull/11178#discussion_r1845716939 ), could address this. * Having the un-inerting behaviour be inconsistent with the HTML inert attribute seems like a significant DX issue. * We are also concerned and wondering about the use cases where it makes sense to use CSS inert rather than the HTML attribute? What other scenarios, besides carousels, do you envisage for CSS inert? * Whilst the APG pattern [1] demonstrates one way to make a carousel, we find several different variations in the wild [?,?,?] that work differently. Some allow the user to move focus via the keyboard to 'out-of-view' elements - this avoids the need for the user to find navigation buttons, or learn keyboard shortcuts, such as the arrow keys. Whilst not suitable everywhere, these patterns don't seem to be encouraged by the existence of the `inert` property. [1] https://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/apg/patterns/carousel/ Matthew Atkinson Head of Web Standards Samsung R&D Institute UK Samsung Electronics +44 7733 238 020 Samsung R&D Institute (SRUK), Communications House, South Street, Staines-upon-Thames, Surrey, TW18 4QE. A division of Samsung Electronics (UK) Limited, a limited company registered in England and Wales with registered number 03086621 and whose registered address is Samsung House, 2000 Hillswood Drive, Chertsey, Surrey, KT16 0RS, UK. This email (including any attachments) is private and confidential, and may be privileged. It is for the exclusive use of the intended recipient(s). If you have received this email in error, please inform the sender immediately and then delete this email. Unless you have been given specific permission to do so, please do not distribute or copy this email or its contents. Unless the text of this email specifically states that it is a contractual offer or acceptance, the sender does not intend to create a legal relationship and this email shall not constitute an offer or acceptance which could give rise to a contract. Any views expressed in this communication are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifically states them to be the views of Samsung.
Received on Thursday, 13 March 2025 17:20:06 UTC