APA call minutes 2025-03-12

See https://www.w3.org/2025/03/12-apa-minutes.html and below.

Best,
Gottfried

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[IAAP Certified CPWA]

Prof. Dr. Gottfried Zimmermann
Professor Mobile User Interaction
Hochschule der Medien Stuttgart
Email gzimmermann@acm.org<mailto:gzimmermann@acm.org>
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Postadresse: Nobelstr. 10, 70569 Stuttgart


   [1]W3C

      [1] https://www.w3.org/

                             - DRAFT -
                       APA Weekly Teleconference

12 Mar 2025

   [2]IRC log.

      [2] https://www.w3.org/2025/03/12-apa-irc

Attendees

   Present
          chiace, chiace7, Gottfried, janina, JonCohn, matatk,
          PaulG, Roy_Ruoxi

   Regrets
          Demelza, Dr_Keith, Fredrik

   Chair
          Janina

   Scribe
          Gottfried

Contents

    1. [3]Agenda Review & Announcements
    2. [4]APA re-chartering
    3. [5]New Draft Charters
         1. [6]Distributed Tracing Working Group Charter
    4. [7]CSS inert review
    5. [8]Spec review requests
         1. [9]webauthn-3
    6. [10]Comment review requests
         1. [11]Comment String Searching
         2. [12]Email: Comment: WCAG 3.0 accessibility guidelines:
            Accessing a "virtual" meeting using a teleconferencing
            application such as Zoom - receipt of streamed text
            content
    7. [13]CSS Update (Paul)

Meeting minutes

   <janina> /me [14]https://rednote.net/scuba250306.mov

     [14] https://rednote.net/scuba250306.mov

   <matatk> regrets Fredrik

  Agenda Review & Announcements

   janina1: Community group on XR captioning working on a working
   draft

   <janina> [15]https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/
   public-apa-admin/2025Mar/0000.html

     [15] https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-apa-admin/2025Mar/0000.html

   janina1: FPWD on accessibility in AI systems. First on content
   creation, but other topics will be added.
   ... In the editor's draft, there is some more information on
   which topics may be added and requested for more information.

   Chiara: Where can we contribute topics?

   janina1: In the doc, there are instructions on contributing
   either by GitHub or be email.
   ... Your are also welcome to join the Research Questions Task
   Force.

   chiace7: Have students working on master degree, may contribute
   to the topic.

   janina1: We will have to add you by hand to the task force
   calendar and mailing list.
   ... Everybody in APA
   ... in APA is welcome to contribute to all 6 task forces
   ... explains status of FPWD

  APA re-chartering

   janina1: We hoped to make it in March, but will slip to April
   ... Specifications in community groups don't show on our radar.
   We do this for WG specs.
   ... So, for community groups, we will need a review process.
   ... Upcoming Advisory Committee meeting might empower APA to do
   this.
   ... Hopefully we will add a brief clause about TAG-identified
   work from certain community groups.

   matatk: Good summary.

  New Draft Charters

    Distributed Tracing Working Group Charter

   <Roy_Ruoxi> - issue: [16]w3c/strategy#495

     [16] https://github.com/w3c/strategy/issues/495

   <Roy_Ruoxi> - charter: [17]https://w3c.github.io/
   charter-drafts/2025/distributed-tracing-wg.html

     [17] https://w3c.github.io/charter-drafts/2025/distributed-tracing-wg.html

   Roy_Ruoxi: Looks relative low-level, related to protocols. I am
   good with this charter..

   janina1: Anybody objecting?

   (no objection)

  CSS inert review

   <matatk> Background reading (from agenda announcement):
   [18]https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-apa/2025Mar/
   0004.html

     [18] https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-apa/2025Mar/0004.html

   <matatk> For convenience, links from the background reading, in
   case you need them on the call...

   <matatk> Explainer for CSS carousel features (including inert):
   [19]https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/blob/main/
   css-overflow-5/carousel-explainer.md

     [19] https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/blob/main/css-overflow-5/carousel-explainer.md

   <matatk> TAG design review thread (featuring Alice's comment):
   [20]w3ctag/design-reviews#1055

     [20] https://github.com/w3ctag/design-reviews/issues/1055

   <matatk> Background CSS WG discussion (featuring more details
   on the concerns): [21]w3c/csswg-drafts#10711

     [21] https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/10711

   <matatk> Some questions I think we need to answer...

   <matatk> 1. What level of concern do we have?

   <matatk> 2. Would restricting inert to the top layer be
   sufficient?

   <matatk> 3. What questions do we have?

   <matatk> Any thoughts?

   matatk: Everything is in my email, no need to scribe.

   <chiace7> The current proposal for interactivity: inert is not
   tied to visible elements, which could lead to excessive or
   unintentional use. Has a mechanism been considered to visually
   indicate the "inert" state to developers (e.g., via DevTools or
   a specific pseudo-class like :inert)? If so, how could this
   mitigate implementation risks?

   matatk: Alice had this concern as well. Suggested limiting it
   to the top layer which are usually styled visually.

   <chiace7> Is there a plan to provide clear guidelines on when
   interactivity: inert should (or should not) be used? For
   example, in carousel design, how can we ensure that developers
   do not make entire sections of the page inert, compromising
   accessibility?

   matatk: We would like for APA to have a consensus on this.

   matatk: We do not want to make it super easy to make mistakes.

   janina1: This seems to be more of a UI concern?

   matatk: It may be a bit more. It does not change presentation,
   but functionality and focusability of things.
   ... This is a new thing in CSS.

   janina1: So it could be the stocking horse for other things of
   this kind?
   ... So, at some point WCAG 3.0 will need to talk about it.

   matatk: Would come in as technique.
   ... With other complex features in CSS, the building blocks have
   been useful. In the context of carousels, scrolling and
   inertness are addressed as well.
   ... My concern: If people start to make things inert that are not
   visible... What are the other use cases for this, except
   carousels?

   janina1: I feel we should move forward provisionally.

   PaulG: I don't like carousels. Focus issues, arrow keying.
   ... You could do this with something else. Designers use them too
   much, developers do a bad job.

   chiace7: Could work well in CSS. But could be overused by
   designers, in particular for offscreen elements.
   ... We need guidance on when to use it when not, regarding
   usability and accessibility.

   <matatk> ack

   matatk: There are many ways to do carousels. Trying to fit all
   carousels in this scheme will not work.
   ... We are concerned about the documentation for developers and
   the potential for misuse by developers.
   ... Interested in use cases which requires a CSS property rather
   than a simple HTML attribute.
   ... Are there other types of carousels other than apg?

   PaulG: Larger list is on a different computer - will send it by
   email.

   matatk: Propose to make an APA comment on our mailing list,
   expressing our concerns. Any objections?

   (no objections)

   janina1: We need to ask them WHY this is needed in CSS rather
   than HTML?

  Spec review requests

    webauthn-3

   <matatk> Review request (public-facing thread): [22]w3c/
   a11y-request#101

     [22] https://github.com/w3c/a11y-request/issues/101

   <matatk> Due: 2025-03-31

   <matatk> Changes in this version: [23]https://www.w3.org/TR/
   2025/WD-webauthn-3-20250127/#changes-since-l2

     [23] https://www.w3.org/TR/2025/WD-webauthn-3-20250127/#changes-since-l2

   <matatk> Accessibility Considerations section: [24]https://
   www.w3.org/TR/2025/
   WD-webauthn-3-20250127/#sctn-accessiblility-considerations

     [24] https://www.w3.org/TR/2025/WD-webauthn-3-20250127/#sctn-accessiblility-considerations

   <matatk> Previous APA review, including Fredrik's comments:
   <[25]https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/wiki/
   Web_Authentication:_An_API_for_accessing_Public_Key_Credentials
   _-_Level_3>

     [25] https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/wiki/Web_Authentication:_An_API_for_accessing_Public_Key_Credentials_-_Level_3

   matatk: Review in progress on Web authentication 3.
   ... To look at: Accessibility considerations sections, are our
   previous concerns addressed?

  Comment review requests

    Comment String Searching

   <matatk> source: (Proposed APA comment, in draft)

   <matatk> tracking: [26]w3c/a11y-review#222

     [26] https://github.com/w3c/a11y-review/issues/222

   <matatk> previous minutes: [27]https://www.w3.org/2025/02/
   05-apa-minutes.html#eed7

     [27] https://www.w3.org/2025/02/05-apa-minutes.html#eed7

   matatk: This is a FPWD.
   ... Paul had a good comment on it. We will progress this comment
   as soon as possible.

   janina1: We can always address coga comments later.

    Email: Comment: WCAG 3.0 accessibility guidelines: Accessing a
    "virtual" meeting using a teleconferencing application such as Zoom
    - receipt of streamed text content

   <matatk> source: [28]w3c/silver#476

     [28] https://github.com/w3c/silver/issues/476

   <matatk> tracking: [29]w3c/a11y-review#223

     [29] https://github.com/w3c/a11y-review/issues/223

   matatk: About difficulty of accessing streaming text in a web
   conference.
   ... Braille reading has a "speed limit" - bandwidth is smaller
   for somebody who is deaf-blind.
   ... We need to find ways to summarize the contents of a meeting.
   ... It is now in the WCAG3 repository.
   ... There is something that could be added to the user reqs. But
   not sure we should do this.

   <janina> [30]https://www.w3.org/TR/ctaur/#social

     [30] https://www.w3.org/TR/ctaur/#social

   matatk: For RQTF to consider...

   janina1: Now we can reference it with our RTC comments.

   matatk: Is there anything objective to say about this?

   janina1: Hard to say. Simple solution: "Accommodate the people
   you have. Be mindful."

  CSS Update (Paul)

   janina1: Any other business?

   (none)

   Meeting is adjourned


    Minutes manually created (not a transcript), formatted by
    [31]scribe.perl version 244 (Thu Feb 27 01:23:09 2025 UTC).

     [31] https://w3c.github.io/scribe2/scribedoc.html

Diagnostics

   Succeeded: s/AOA/APA/

   Succeeded: s/ITTF/RQTF/

   Maybe present: Chiara, janina1

   All speakers: chiace7, Chiara, janina1, matatk, PaulG,
   Roy_Ruoxi

   Active on IRC: chiace7, Gottfried, Gottfried_, janina, JonCohn,
   matatk, PaulG, Roy_Ruoxi