APA Meeting Minutes November 17, 2021

Dear all,

Minutes from the APA teleconference of 17 November are provided below as 
text.
They're available as hypertext at:
https://www.w3.org/2021/11/17-apa-minutes.html


IRC Log with timestamps:

#apa: APA Weekly Teleconference; Wednesday 17 November at 1700Z
[19:03] == Lionel_Wolberger [~Lionel_Wolberger@79c2f29d.public.cloak] 
has joined #apa
[19:03] <Lionel_Wolberger> present+
[19:03] == Fredrik [~5473e3da@79c2f29d.public.cloak] has joined #apa
[19:03] <Lionel_Wolberger> present?
[19:03] <Fredrik>  present+
[19:03] <Lionel_Wolberger> q?
[19:03] * Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
[19:03] <Lionel_Wolberger> agenda?
[19:03] * Zakim sees 12 items remaining on the agenda:
[19:03] * Zakim 1. Agenda Review & Announcements [from janina]
[19:03] * Zakim 2. CfC on CAPTCHA 
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-apa-admin/2021Nov/0000.html 
[from janina]
[19:03] * Zakim 3. Task Force Updates [from janina]
[19:03] * Zakim 4. FAST Update [from janina]
[19:03] * Zakim 5. New Charters Review 
https://github.com/w3c/strategy/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3A%22Horizontal+review+requested%22 
[from janina]
[19:03] <anevins_> present+
[19:03] * Zakim 6. A11y Review Comment Tracker 
https://w3c.github.io/horizontal-issue-tracker/?repo=w3c/a11y-review 
[from janina]
[19:03] * Zakim 7. CSS Update https://github.com/w3c/css-a11y/issues 
[from janina]
[19:03] * Zakim 8. new on TR http://www.w3.org/TR/tr-status-drafts.html 
[from janina]
[19:03] * Zakim 9. Actions Checkin (Specs) 
https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/track/actions/open [from janina]
[19:03] * Zakim 10. Dangling Spec Review Cleanup: 
https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/wiki/Category:Spec_Review_Assigned [from janina]
[19:03] * Zakim 11. Other Business [from janina]
[19:03] * Zakim 12. be done [from janina]
[19:03] <Fredrik> scribe: Fredrik
[19:03] <janina> present+
[19:03] <Lionel_Wolberger> scribe: Lionel_Wolberger
[19:04] <Lionel_Wolberger> zakim, next item
[19:04] <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Agenda Review & Announcements -- taken up 
[from janina]
[19:05] <Lionel_Wolberger> janina: Happy Thanksgiving to our American 
participants, no meeting next week Nov 24th
[19:05] <Lionel_Wolberger> zakim, next item
[19:05] <Zakim> agendum 2 -- CfC on CAPTCHA 
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-apa-admin/2021Nov/0000.html 
-- taken up [from janina]
[19:06] <Lionel_Wolberger> janina: Reminder to APA members, cfc open for 
the Captcha note
[19:06] <Lionel_Wolberger> ... updating the note with some work from 
Cloudflare
[19:07] <Lionel_Wolberger> ... Our consensus is, we need a good Turing 
test (bots are bad), but the current Captcha fails accessibility and 
fails for other reasons
[19:07] <Lionel_Wolberger> ... We can go beyond the 'note' which is only 
our opinion
[19:07] <Fredrik> q+
[19:07] * Zakim sees Fredrik on the speaker queue
[19:07] == anevins [~anevins@79c2f29d.public.cloak] has quit [Ping 
timeout: 180 seconds]
[19:07] <Lionel_Wolberger> ... and turn this into a statement by the W3C
[19:07] <Lionel_Wolberger> ... this new process to elevate the NOTE to a 
STATEMENT, as well wanting to add more info regarding the CLoudflare updates
[19:08] <anevins_> q+
[19:08] * Zakim sees Fredrik, anevins_ on the speaker queue
[19:08] == mike_beganyi [~mike_beganyi@79c2f29d.public.cloak] has joined 
#apa
[19:09] <Lionel_Wolberger> ... process: (1) publish fpwd of this note, 
then (2,3...) you can read in the cfc in email
[19:09] <janina> q?
[19:09] * Zakim sees Fredrik, anevins_ on the speaker queue
[19:09] <janina> ack fr
[19:09] * Zakim sees anevins_ on the speaker queue
[19:09] <Lionel_Wolberger> Fredrik: Is cloudflare interested in being 
included in our process, and if so, how?
[19:09] * mike_beganyi apologies for being late, all
[19:09] <mike_beganyi> present+
[19:10] <Lionel_Wolberger> janina: Cloudflare did show interest in being 
involved. Let's complete our cfc then reach out (if we decide we want to 
reach out)
[19:11] <Lionel_Wolberger> ... let's go one step at a time. First 
complete the cfc, then get consensus
[19:11] <Lionel_Wolberger> ... likely will also push to have them become 
W3C members
[19:11] <Lionel_Wolberger> Fredrik: What are they proposing?
[19:12] <Lionel_Wolberger> janina: Research Questions has pulled 
together the technical process they are suggesting, using the W3C API 
for validating the person,
[19:12] <Fredrik> q-
[19:12] * Zakim sees anevins_ on the speaker queue
[19:12] <Lionel_Wolberger> ... we will likely also involve Lionel to 
evaluate the authorization and authentication process as he has 
experience in identity issues
[19:12] <Lionel_Wolberger> ... cloudflare has data on how captcha 
failures are hurting e-commerce
[19:12] <Lionel_Wolberger> ... these facts will be super useful to add 
to the paper
[19:13] <Lionel_Wolberger> ... good captcha is another "curb-cut"
[19:13] <janina> q?
[19:13] * Zakim sees anevins_ on the speaker queue
[19:13] <janina> ack and
[19:13] * Zakim sees anevins_ on the speaker queue
[19:14] <Lionel_Wolberger> anevins_: We recently audited Captcha against 2.1
[19:16] <Lionel_Wolberger> MichaelC: We will add Andrew to Research 
Questions
[19:17] <MichaelC> http://github/w3c/captcha-accessibility/
[19:17] == kirkwood [~kirkwood@79c2f29d.public.cloak] has joined #APA
[19:17] <Lionel_Wolberger> anevins_: Please put a link to the git for 
this Captcha/a11y repo, and the preview
[19:17] <MichaelC> 
s|http://github/w3c/captcha-accessibility/|https://github.com/w3c/captcha-accessibility/|
[19:17] * MichaelC https://github.com/w3c/captcha-accessibility/
[19:18] <MichaelC> https://w3c.github.io/captcha-accessibility/
[19:19] <Lionel_Wolberger> anevins_: Regarding the audit. Google 
Recaptcha version _ against WCAG 2.1 AA
[19:19] <Lionel_Wolberger> q?
[19:19] * Zakim sees anevins_ on the speaker queue
[19:19] <Lionel_Wolberger> ack anevins_
[19:19] * Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
[19:20] <Lionel_Wolberger> janina: This note on captcha was reviewed by 
a Google engineer and they did not find issues with it
[19:20] <Lionel_Wolberger> zakim, next item
[19:20] <Zakim> agendum 3 -- Task Force Updates -- taken up [from janina]
[19:22] <Lionel_Wolberger> janina: Research Questions has a lot of 
documents in the air
[19:23] <Lionel_Wolberger> ... is ready to take the Captcha note onto 
their 'plate'
[19:23] <Lionel_Wolberger> ... in addition to the XAUR, remote meetings, 
nat'l language, (and janina listed five others)
[19:23] <Lionel_Wolberger> janina: Personalization is doing well with 
its i18n issue
[19:25] <Lionel_Wolberger> Lionel_Wolberger: Yes, we got the symbols 
thanks to Steve Lee
[19:26] <Lionel_Wolberger> janina: P11n (pronunciation) is doing a panel 
presentation on the specification
[19:26] <Lionel_Wolberger> ... TPAC gave feedback as well
[19:27] <Lionel_Wolberger> q?
[19:27] * Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
[19:27] <Lionel_Wolberger> janina: COGA working on providing feedback on 
RQTF documents and are working to meet the timeline
[19:28] <Lionel_Wolberger> ... COGA's desire to work on mental health 
issues likely requires an update to their work statement
[19:28] <Lionel_Wolberger> ... they are gathering potential issues that 
may be useful to address
[19:28] <anevins_> Regarding the audit. Google Recaptcha version 3 
against WCAG 2.1 AA
[19:29] <janina> q?
[19:29] * Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
[19:29] <Lionel_Wolberger> zakim, next item
[19:29] <Zakim> agendum 4 -- FAST Update -- taken up [from janina]
[19:29] <Lionel_Wolberger> MichaelC: Framework for Accessible 
Specification of Technologies (FAST) is a bit stalled
[19:29] <Lionel_Wolberger> ... not much to report in the last week
[19:30] <Lionel_Wolberger> zakim, next item
[19:30] <Zakim> agendum 4 was just opened, Lionel_Wolberger
[19:30] <Lionel_Wolberger> zakim, close this item
[19:30] <Zakim> agendum 4 closed
[19:30] <Zakim> I see 8 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
[19:30] <Zakim> 5. New Charters Review 
https://github.com/w3c/strategy/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3A%22Horizontal+review+requested%22 
[from janina]
[19:30] <Lionel_Wolberger> zakim, next item
[19:30] <Zakim> agendum 5 -- New Charters Review 
https://github.com/w3c/strategy/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3A%22Horizontal+review+requested%22 
-- taken up [from janina]
[19:30] <MichaelC> https://github.com/w3c/strategy/issues/291
[19:31] <MichaelC> https://w3c.github.io/secondscreen-charter/
[19:31] <Lionel_Wolberger> MichaelC: Second Screen Working Group
[19:31] <Lionel_Wolberger> janina: That group has high turnover
[19:32] <Lionel_Wolberger> MichaelC: Adding "define APIs to query 
windows positions and position windows on multiple screens" and more...
[19:32] <Lionel_Wolberger> q+
[19:32] * Zakim sees Lionel_Wolberger on the speaker queue
[19:33] <Lionel_Wolberger> janina: We want this spec to speak about 
"discovering devices" and not just displays
[19:34] <Lionel_Wolberger> ... "second screen" does not mean a second 
SCREEN, it means multiple devices
[19:34] <Lionel_Wolberger> ... "second screen" is a shorthand idiom to 
speed discussion, such as "watching a movie"
[19:34] <Lionel_Wolberger> ... we know it's not a movie, it's an idiom 
to simplify discussion
[19:35] <Lionel_Wolberger> ... second screen refers to many different 
devices
[19:35] <Lionel_Wolberger> Lionel_Wolberger: The spec says " e-book 
readers, phones, tablets, laptops, auto displays, and electronic signs."
[19:36] <Lionel_Wolberger> ... allow these devices to use secondary 
audio and video presentation devices available in the local environment, 
attached by wired connections or remotely with wireless, peer-to-peer media.
[19:37] <Lionel_Wolberger> ... can you tell us more about these multiple 
screens
[19:37] <Lionel_Wolberger> janina: In the Media Accessibility User 
Requirements we spoke about how the alternative representations (such as 
captions, or audio descriptions)
[19:38] <Lionel_Wolberger> ... will often be available on other devices
[19:38] <Lionel_Wolberger> ... in a Broadway theater the audio 
descriptions can be made available by wifi to people's personal android 
devices
[19:38] <Lionel_Wolberger> ... these secondary devices are critical
[19:39] <Lionel_Wolberger> ... refreshable braille displays, bluetooth 
headphones, chromecast devices, any technology that will participate in 
consuming a media resource
[19:39] <Lionel_Wolberger> ... the primary display carries the primary, 
and the secondary can carry the secondary
[19:39] <Lionel_Wolberger> Lionel_Wolberger: The name "second screen" 
obfuscates
[19:40] <Lionel_Wolberger> janina: But the alternative name was really 
long, awkward and hard to remember
[19:40] <Lionel_Wolberger> ... like blind people 'watch TV' using the 
proximate meaning
[19:41] <Lionel_Wolberger> ... using an even tempered scale 
metaphor--losing the perfect fifth enabled us to integrate more notes 
and melodies
[19:41] <Lionel_Wolberger> ... A good moment to remind people about the 
MAUR (Media Accessibility User Requirements)
[19:41] <Lionel_Wolberger> ... this was the first *AUR
[19:42] <Lionel_Wolberger> ... HTML5 brought the media support that APA 
asked for
[19:42] <Lionel_Wolberger> ... with the exception of one item
[19:42] <Lionel_Wolberger> ... we accomplished this with use cases, user 
scenarios, a markup technology that could support an extensible list of 
these support version
[19:43] <Lionel_Wolberger> ... we invented a term which we called the 
PRIMARY video resource and then the ALTERNATIVE
[19:43] <Lionel_Wolberger> ... the video provided as video and the video 
provided as text
[19:43] <Lionel_Wolberger> ... we are still developing what we have 
developed for HTML 5
[19:43] <janina> q?
[19:43] * Zakim sees Lionel_Wolberger on the speaker queue
[19:44] <janina> ack li
[19:44] * Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
[19:44] <Lionel_Wolberger> ack Lionel_Wolberger
[19:44] * Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
[19:44] <Lionel_Wolberger> zakim, next item
[19:44] <Zakim> agendum 6 -- A11y Review Comment Tracker 
https://w3c.github.io/horizontal-issue-tracker/?repo=w3c/a11y-review -- 
taken up [from janina]
[19:45] <Lionel_Wolberger> MichaelC: Nothing new this week
[19:45] <Lionel_Wolberger> zakim, close this item
[19:45] <Zakim> agendum 6 closed
[19:45] <Zakim> I see 6 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
[19:45] <Zakim> 7. CSS Update https://github.com/w3c/css-a11y/issues 
[from janina]
[19:45] <Lionel_Wolberger> zakim, next item
[19:45] <Zakim> agendum 7 -- CSS Update 
https://github.com/w3c/css-a11y/issues -- taken up [from janina]
[19:46] <Lionel_Wolberger> janina: Need a new representative from CSS. 
Amy has moved on, thanks to Amy for the splendid job she did keeping us 
synchronized
[19:47] <Lionel_Wolberger> ... We have spoken with the CSS chairs and 
will follow-up after Thanksgiving
[19:47] <janina> 
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-apa/2021Nov/0016.html
[19:48] <Lionel_Wolberger> CCSS highligh API
[19:48] <Lionel_Wolberger> An example: In data analysis, highlights are 
used to indicate any number  of things - errors, outliers, or like the 
example in my comment in the  issue: user sentiments. Highlights are 
also used in data analysis for  medical literature to highligh medical 
conditions or symptom keywords.
[19:50] <Lionel_Wolberger> Issue 6498 on how the CSS  highlight API is 
exposed to the accessibility tree ( 
https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/6498).
[19:50] * trackbot doesn't understand that ISSUE command.
[19:51] <janina> q?
[19:51] * Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
[19:51] <Lionel_Wolberger> janina: Do we agree to track this?
[19:51] <Lionel_Wolberger> ... No one disagrees.
[19:52] <Lionel_Wolberger> ... If a site associates certain color 
highlights with certain semantic meanings, that is something that APA 
would be interested in
[19:52] <Lionel_Wolberger> Fredrik: Personalization would seem to be in 
scope of semantics like this
[19:53] <Lionel_Wolberger> janina: Maybe we can write an accessibility 
section that points to Personalization, where we could specify how a 
highlight color is associated with a color
[19:53] <Lionel_Wolberger> Lionel_Wolberger: ARIA-labelled_by could 
handle this
[19:54] <Lionel_Wolberger> janina: But this is wider than just assistive 
technology, it would be helpful to keep it in Personalization scope
[19:55] <Lionel_Wolberger> ... colorization is becoming more 
sophisticated and deserves to be associated with semantics
[19:58] <Lionel_Wolberger> MichaelC: "Figure out how highlights are 
exposed to the accessibility tree" is in our tracker
[19:58] <Lionel_Wolberger> ... shall I block?
[19:58] <Lionel_Wolberger> janina: Let's block
[19:58] <MichaelC> https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/6498
[19:58] * MichaelC rrsagent, make minutes
[19:58] <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate 
https://www.w3.org/2021/11/17-apa-minutes.html MichaelC
[20:00] <Lionel_Wolberger> zakim, next item
[20:00] <Zakim> agendum 8 -- new on TR 
http://www.w3.org/TR/tr-status-drafts.html -- taken up [from janina]
[20:00] <Lionel_Wolberger> janina: Thanks everyone for a productive 
meeting, see you in two weeks.
[20:01] <Lionel_Wolberger> r symptom keywords. [19:50] 
<Lionel_Wolberger> Issue 6498 on how the CSS  highlight API is exposed 
to the accessibility tree ( 
https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/6498). [19:50] * trackbot 
doesn't understand that ISSUE command. [19:51] <janina> q? [19:51] * 
Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue [19:51] <Lionel_Wolberger> 
janina: Do we agree to track this? [19:51] <Lionel_Wolberger> ... No one 
disagrees. [19:52] <Lionel_Wolberger> ... If a site associates cer
[20:01] <Lionel_Wolberger> rrsagent, make minutes
[20:01] <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate 
https://www.w3.org/2021/11/17-apa-minutes.html Lionel_Wolberger
[20:02] == Fredrik [~5473e3da@79c2f29d.public.cloak] has quit 
["https://mibbit.com Online IRC Client"]


  
Lionel Wolberger
COO, UserWay Inc.
lionel@userway.org <mailto:lionel@userway.org>

 

 UserWay.org <http://userway.org/>

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