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APA 2020-02-26 meeting minutes

From: Gottfried Zimmermann \(Lists\) <zimmermann@accesstechnologiesgroup.com>
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2020 19:02:21 +0100
To: "'W3C WAI Accessible Platform Architectures'" <public-apa@w3.org>
Message-ID: <0ff701d5ecce$e5d2c030$b1784090$@accesstechnologiesgroup.com>
HTML format: See https://www.w3.org/2020/02/26-apa-minutes.html.
Text format: See below.

Best regards,

 Prof. Dr. Gottfried Zimmermann
 Access Technologies Group, Germany


      [1] http://www.w3.org/

                               - DRAFT -

         Accessible Platform Architectures (APA) Teleconference

26 Feb 2020


          janina, Matthew_Atkinson, becka11y, JF, MichaelC, irfan,
          becky, jasonjgw, Joshue_108_, Joanmarie_Diggs,
          Gottfried, Joshue108_, Johnue108_, CharlesL





     * [2]Topics
         1. [3]Agenda Review & Announcements
         2. [4]WCAG 3.0 Mathematical Markup -- Open Discussion
         3. [5]MathML and Chemistry Markup Update
         4. [6]Task Force Updates -- Upcoming Publications
         5. [7]New Charters Review
         6. [8]new on TR
         7. [9]Actions Checkin (Specs)
     * [10]Summary of Action Items
     * [11]Summary of Resolutions

   <scribe> scribe: Gottfried

Agenda Review & Announcements

   Janina: After this item, we are going to talk to the AG tf.
   ... Is WCAG 3.0 formal yet?

   Michael: It is possible.

   Janina: Any news?

   Michael: Back at work. 5 working days to CSUN.

   <JF> [12]https://doodle.com/poll/nacwpgxaeukfqzqi

     [12] https://doodle.com/poll/nacwpgxaeukfqzqi

   John: The doodle poll is open until Fri. For CSUN breakfast.
   ... We are about 13 or 14 persons now.

   Janina: Individual checks

WCAG 3.0 Mathematical Markup -- Open Discussion

   Charles: George is in another call, cannot join.

   Janina: Color contrast. Trying to get smarter for calculating
   color contrast. Spec must include calculations, and we need
   mathematics for that.
   ... How can we present the formula for color contrast in the
   spec in an accessible manner?
   ... Into the calculation go things like font weight, etc.
   Developers will just run a tool. But the spec needs to provide
   the mathematics for the tool builders.
   ... WCAG 3.0 will go in FPWG soon hopefully.

   Charles: The math of calculating the color contrast has nothing
   to do with how to present the formula.

   John: Next generation spec will have formulas as part of the
   normative text.
   ... What can we use? MathML? MathJax is the bridging solution

   Jason: Suggestion: Use MathJax to include MathML in any HTML5
   doc. In a few years - at the time of the final publication -
   browsers may support MathML.
   ... Question is not for the authors, but for how to store the

   John: MathJax is just providing a polyfill?

   Jason: Basically yes.

   John: Do we have any capability to bring in MathJax lib in the
   w3c publishing chain?

   Janina: If we can include the script sourcing into the doc
   header, the wgs can decide how to use it.

   Jason: You can host the JavaScript lib on your own server - no

   Janina: That would be w3.org (own server)

   Michael: We need to ask the web master about this.
   ... I suspect W3C would prefer to use MathML directly.
   ... We would need to get an exception for using MathJax.

   Jason: You want the rendering on the client side.
   ... Polyfill happens on the client.
   ... MathJax also supports polyfilling on the server, but that
   would create an accessibility issue.

   Charles: This hinges on browser support for MathML - natively.
   ... Then you don't need the JavaScripting anymore.
   ... Chromium is starting to render MathML. There was a demo
   last year. MathML refresh 4.0 is underway.
   ... They are adding support for accessibility, also reaching
   out to chemistry.

   Janina: Summary: For the FPWG (maybe a month away), we need
   MathJax. We would prefer the source be in MathML - W3C spec.
   ... AT support is currently covered by the MathJax polyfill.
   ... When the spec goes to CR/PR, we may have native browser
   support for MathML - at least for Chromium.

   Gottfried: At some point in the future, may we just remove the
   MathJax include?

   Charles: yes, that is my understanding

   Jason: yes. Progress also for Mozilla.

   John: Weakest point is: Can we get MathJax integrated in the
   ... Are we going to make it in 2025?

   Janina: Sure (smile).
   ... Who is going to make this request for including MathJax?

   Michael: Request for using it in TR?
   ... That would be my job to talk to the web master.
   ... I need a clear description of the proposal.
   ... For now, edit the spec assuming it will go ahead.
   ... Either we get an exception for the filtering rules, or the
   web master will propose a different solution.

   Jason: If this path is not going forward, let's look at the
   MathML specs - what they are doing.
   ... MathML 3 is on TR.
   ... MathML 4 is on a Git rep - community group.

   Janina: We could reuse their scripts?

   Jason: Look at version 3 which is on the TR page.

   Charles: MathML 4 is driven by a community group right now. Not
   clear whether the TR will be developed by the exiting wg or a
   new wg.
   ... MathML 3.0.1 was published last week, fixing a bug.
   ... MathML that is put on to the page, must be done right.
   ... We have seen incorrect MathML syntax in epub documents.

   Janina: We are talking months here. The exception is going to
   be necessary for this spec.

   Michael: MathML 3 uses a combination of images and MathML
   ... Our approach will be forward-compatible - no waste of time.

   Charles: Willing to help.

   Jason: Also willing to help testing.

   Charles: Does any of our specs display things like chemistry?

   Janina: Not that i know.
   ... We are trying to support authors in styling formulas,
   ensuring enough contrast etc.
   ... Content developers are going to run the tool.

   Jason: Was the update on chemistry etc. related to this topic?

   Janina: We haven't talked about this in APA for a while. But we
   can take it up as a topic.

MathML and Chemistry Markup Update

   Jason: MathML wg is working on accessibility support. They
   intend to develop the MathML 4 spec.
   ... They also want to define the rules for rending MathML.
   ... The main issue for a11y lies in the semantic ambiguity for
   mathematical presentation in MathML.
   ... They develop a system in which optional markup can define
   meaning more precisely.
   ... The proposal under development would involve specific
   semantics to be included on MathML elements.
   ... There is a doc by Neal Soiffer that identifies ambiguities.
   ... MathML community group wishes to distinguish chemistry
   formulae from general mathematical expressions.
   ... The community group currently involves chemistry
   specialists to help for disambiguation.

   <CharlesL> Chemistry expressions / symbols semantics document


   Charles: This doc has the chemistry symbols and ambiguities.
   ... Trying to reduce the number of elements that are possibly
   ... People with chemistry knowledge are asked for input.

   Jason: Trying to disambiguate by knowing the chemistry subfield
   or other context.

   <CharlesL> Here is the Github repo for the mathml refresh

     [14] https://github.com/mathml-refresh

   Jason: WAI-ARIA is not being looked at because the problem is
   not a primarily a11y issue.

   Janina: Great to see this is moving along.

Task Force Updates -- Upcoming Publications

   Janina: We have a cfc from Friday for the pronunciation tf.
   Please respond.
   ... We are expecting more out of RQTF soon such as the new

   Michael: It is impossible for me to do another doc before CSUN.
   ... I suggest to wait until after CSUN.

   Janina: Agree.

   Joshue: Should be okay. We did a lot of work, and we are in a
   good place to publish RAUR after CSUN.

New Charters Review


   Michael: Wait a second....

   <MichaelC> [16]https://www.w3.org/TR/xaur/

     [16] https://www.w3.org/TR/xaur/

new on TR [17]http://www.w3.org/TR/tr-status-drafts.html

     [17] http://www.w3.org/TR/tr-status-drafts.html

Actions Checkin (Specs)

     [18] https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/track/products/8


   <trackbot> action-2224 -- Gottfried Zimmermann to Review ttml
   profiles for internet media subtitles and captions 1.2
   [19]https://www.w3.org/tr/ttml-imsc1.2/ -- due 2019-12-11 --

     [19] https://www.w3.org/tr/ttml-imsc1.2/

   <trackbot> [20]https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/track/actions/2224

     [20] https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/track/actions/2224

   Janina: We got proper consensus for action-2224.



   Janina: All text between <begin draft comment> and
   </draft-comment> can be sent to the TTML wg.
   ... I will post it.
   ... Any other action items?

   John: On bullet-chatting - i gave a quick-and-dirty writeup.
   ... Watching a tv and streaming chat messages as an overlay
   over the video.
   ... Multiple pieces of text showing on the screen.
   ... Also display on a big wall at conferences.
   ... There are already doing this in multiple places.


     [22] https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-apa/2020Feb/0014.html

   John: It is a mess regarding a11y.

   Janina: I think we have general consensus as John summarized
   ... I will bring this into coordination group.

   John: Can i close the action item?

   Janina: yes
   ... Meeting adjourned

Summary of Action Items

Summary of Resolutions

   [End of minutes]

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Default Present: janina, Matthew_Atkinson, becka11y, JF, MichaelC, irfan
, becky, jasonjgw, Joshue_108_, Joanmarie_Diggs, Gottfried, Joshue108_
Present: janina Matthew_Atkinson becka11y JF MichaelC irfan becky jasonj
gw Joshue_108_ Joanmarie_Diggs Gottfried Joshue108_ Johnue108_ CharlesL
Regrets: Matthew
Found Scribe: Gottfried
Inferring ScribeNick: Gottfried

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<dbooth> Date: 12 Sep 2002

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Received on Wednesday, 26 February 2020 18:02:40 UTC

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