Re: @alt descriptions for Thing Descriptions

So as George Stated, we have created some Test EPUB books which has below an image (which has simple alt text) an aria-details linked HTML Summary/Details which has the extended image description which as John points out was one of the main reason why longdesc hasn’t made any traction that this information should be accessible to everyone not just assistive technologies.  W.W. Norton and others at the Web4All/DIAGRAM Hackathon expanded this notion and made a very nice UI that publishers could potentially use.  We are testing these out with various reading systems and will be looking to make this work from the hackathon which includes documentation into a potential library.

As for Accessible SVG, I know there are some issues on exposing the sub-components of an SVG to Assistive technology, Volker Sorge has done some work in this field to make a Chemical equation in SVG completely navigable using JavaScript.  So its possible but I am sure it could be improved and make easier.


Thanks
EOM
Charles LaPierre
Technical Lead, DIAGRAM and Born Accessible
Twitter: @CLaPierreA11Y
Skype: charles_lapierre


On Jun 13, 2019, at 11:33 AM, Janina Sajka <janina@rednote.net<mailto:janina@rednote.net>> wrote:

So, our prime complaint and remediation is explanatory Summary/Details.
That's the required WCAG conformance on this W3C document, and I think
it matters a lot in this instance in particular.

Secondary is the use of accessible SVG. It's secondary because it's an
emerging technology. Yes, we should eat our own dog food, but perhaps
the dog food is missing some essential nutrients? Therefore, it's
secondary and we don't fall on our swords over SVG.

Sound right?

John Foliot writes:
My vote would be for both, given that the major argument we got from "back
in the day" (ref: the attribute I am not allow to speak of out loud) is
that these extended descriptions should be available to all users, and not
just screen reader users...

(Additionally, and I've not kept track, is how accessible are accessible
SVGs? It seems, as Joshue noted, that there is both a complex visual
representation, but the bigger challenge is also explaining the
relationships in that representation).

JF

On Thu, Jun 13, 2019 at 12:39 PM Janina Sajka <janina@rednote.net<mailto:janina@rednote.net>> wrote:

I wonder whether it would be most prudent to push for both accessible
SVG and Summary/Details explanatory text?

George Kerscher writes:
Hi,

I think that there may be at least two good alternatives for complex
graphics. SVG, as you suggest and I am looking forward to guidance on
these.

In addition there is the extended description approach, where a textual
description may be more appropriate. We have collected some approaches in
the extended description EPUB you can download from:
http://www.epubtest.org/testbooks

This takes advantage of the details element with its expanding and
collapsing   nature. This may be less intrusive to the reader, and yet
it is
available to anybody who wants more information.

Best
George


-----Original Message-----
From: Janina Sajka (janina@rednote.net<mailto:janina@rednote.net>) <janina@rednote.net<mailto:janina@rednote.net>>
Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2019 8:18 AM
To: Joshue O Connor <joconnor@w3.org<mailto:joconnor@w3.org>>
Cc: W3C WAI Accessible Platform Architectures <public-apa@w3.org<mailto:public-apa@w3.org>>
Subject: Re: @alt descriptions for Thing Descriptions

Long descriptions? Nah, we killed those with HTML 5, right? Who needs
those! <grin>

On a serious note, should we be recommending these be SVG so that we can
use accessible SVG and someone can actually explore the relationship
matrix directly?

Joshue O Connor writes:
On 13/06/2019 15:03, Janina Sajka (janina@rednote.net<mailto:janina@rednote.net>) wrote:

Hey, Josh:

+APA list

So, you're more the expert on WCAG requirements for such "things,
..."
----- Sorry, couldn't resist!

Boom Boom!


Question: Are these detailed in the text otherwise provided by the
spec?

Not really, or at least the visual representation shows how objects,
classes
and instances of same relate to each other.

There are lots of nodes and arrows showing relationships. I'll have a
go
at
abstracting them out and will forward to the list.


If so, simply giving good alt should be sufficient,

These are for sure in the @longdesc section *grin.

Thanks

Josh


right? Else, yes
please!

Best,

Janina

Joshue O Connor writes:
Hi Janina,

I'm reviewing the Thing Description in more detail and have looked
at
the
figures contained in it. There are ~5.

The @alt for 4 of them is 'UML diagram of the TD information model
for
the
hypermedia controls vocabulary' and they represent:

Figure1TD core vocabulary,
Figure2JSON schema vocabulary
Figure3WoT security vocabulary
Figure4Hypermedia controls vocabulary

Do you want me to write up in detail the UML descriptions?

They take the form:

<example>

Thing (linking to Form/Link/Multilanguage/VersionInfo)

@context :anyURL (or Array)

@type: string

id: anyURI

[...]

</example>

They are a little gnarly to describe but I can do it if you need
it.

Whereas one of them represents a representation of a 'TD
Serialization, TD
and Thing on a light switch example' which is again a JSON type
visualisation.

Ok, it will take a little time, but that's ok if its helpful to
you.

Josh

--
Emerging Web Technology Specialist/A11y (WAI/W3C)

--
Emerging Web Technology Specialist/A11y (WAI/W3C)

--

Janina Sajka

Linux Foundation Fellow
Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup:     http://a11y.org


The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI)
Chair, Accessible Platform Architectures      http://www.w3.org/wai/apa





--

Janina Sajka

Linux Foundation Fellow
Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup:       http://a11y.org


The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI)
Chair, Accessible Platform Architectures        http://www.w3.org/wai/apa





--
*​John Foliot* | Principal Accessibility Strategist | W3C AC Representative
Deque Systems - Accessibility for Good
deque.com<http://deque.com>

--

Janina Sajka

Linux Foundation Fellow
Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup: http://a11y.org


The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI)
Chair, Accessible Platform Architectures http://www.w3.org/wai/apa