Re: @alt descriptions for Thing Descriptions

Sounds good to me.

JF

On Thu, Jun 13, 2019 at 1:33 PM Janina Sajka <janina@rednote.net> wrote:

> So, our prime complaint and remediation is explanatory Summary/Details.
> That's the required WCAG conformance on this W3C document, and I think
> it matters a lot in this instance in particular.
>
> Secondary is the use of accessible SVG. It's secondary because it's an
> emerging technology. Yes, we should eat our own dog food, but perhaps
> the dog food is missing some essential nutrients? Therefore, it's
> secondary and we don't fall on our swords over SVG.
>
> Sound right?
>
> John Foliot writes:
> > My vote would be for both, given that the major argument we got from
> "back
> > in the day" (ref: the attribute I am not allow to speak of out loud) is
> > that these extended descriptions should be available to all users, and
> not
> > just screen reader users...
> >
> > (Additionally, and I've not kept track, is how accessible are accessible
> > SVGs? It seems, as Joshue noted, that there is both a complex visual
> > representation, but the bigger challenge is also explaining the
> > relationships in that representation).
> >
> > JF
> >
> > On Thu, Jun 13, 2019 at 12:39 PM Janina Sajka <janina@rednote.net>
> wrote:
> >
> > > I wonder whether it would be most prudent to push for both accessible
> > > SVG and Summary/Details explanatory text?
> > >
> > > George Kerscher writes:
> > > > Hi,
> > > >
> > > > I think that there may be at least two good alternatives for complex
> > > > graphics. SVG, as you suggest and I am looking forward to guidance on
> > > these.
> > > >
> > > > In addition there is the extended description approach, where a
> textual
> > > > description may be more appropriate. We have collected some
> approaches in
> > > > the extended description EPUB you can download from:
> > > > http://www.epubtest.org/testbooks
> > > > This takes advantage of the details element with its expanding and
> > > > collapsing   nature. This may be less intrusive to the reader, and
> yet
> > > it is
> > > > available to anybody who wants more information.
> > > >
> > > > Best
> > > > George
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Janina Sajka (janina@rednote.net) <janina@rednote.net>
> > > > Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2019 8:18 AM
> > > > To: Joshue O Connor <joconnor@w3.org>
> > > > Cc: W3C WAI Accessible Platform Architectures <public-apa@w3.org>
> > > > Subject: Re: @alt descriptions for Thing Descriptions
> > > >
> > > > Long descriptions? Nah, we killed those with HTML 5, right? Who needs
> > > > those! <grin>
> > > >
> > > > On a serious note, should we be recommending these be SVG so that we
> can
> > > > use accessible SVG and someone can actually explore the relationship
> > > > matrix directly?
> > > >
> > > > Joshue O Connor writes:
> > > > > On 13/06/2019 15:03, Janina Sajka (janina@rednote.net) wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Hey, Josh:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > +APA list
> > > > > >
> > > > > > So, you're more the expert on WCAG requirements for such "things,
> > > ..."
> > > > > > ----- Sorry, couldn't resist!
> > > > >
> > > > > Boom Boom!
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > Question: Are these detailed in the text otherwise provided by
> the
> > > spec?
> > > > >
> > > > > Not really, or at least the visual representation shows how
> objects,
> > > > classes
> > > > > and instances of same relate to each other.
> > > > >
> > > > > There are lots of nodes and arrows showing relationships. I'll
> have a
> > > go
> > > > at
> > > > > abstracting them out and will forward to the list.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > If so, simply giving good alt should be sufficient,
> > > > >
> > > > > These are for sure in the @longdesc section *grin.
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks
> > > > >
> > > > > Josh
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > right? Else, yes
> > > > > > please!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Best,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Janina
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Joshue O Connor writes:
> > > > > > > Hi Janina,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I'm reviewing the Thing Description in more detail and have
> looked
> > > at
> > > > the
> > > > > > > figures contained in it. There are ~5.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The @alt for 4 of them is 'UML diagram of the TD information
> model
> > > for
> > > > the
> > > > > > > hypermedia controls vocabulary' and they represent:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Figure1TD core vocabulary,
> > > > > > > Figure2JSON schema vocabulary
> > > > > > > Figure3WoT security vocabulary
> > > > > > > Figure4Hypermedia controls vocabulary
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Do you want me to write up in detail the UML descriptions?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > They take the form:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > <example>
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thing (linking to Form/Link/Multilanguage/VersionInfo)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > @context :anyURL (or Array)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > @type: string
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > id: anyURI
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > [...]
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > </example>
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > They are a little gnarly to describe but I can do it if you
> need
> > > it.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Whereas one of them represents a representation of a 'TD
> > > > Serialization, TD
> > > > > > > and Thing on a light switch example' which is again a JSON type
> > > > > > > visualisation.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Ok, it will take a little time, but that's ok if its helpful to
> > > you.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Josh
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > Emerging Web Technology Specialist/A11y (WAI/W3C)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > Emerging Web Technology Specialist/A11y (WAI/W3C)
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > >
> > > > Janina Sajka
> > > >
> > > > Linux Foundation Fellow
> > > > Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup:     http://a11y.org
> > > >
> > > > The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative
> (WAI)
> > > > Chair, Accessible Platform Architectures
> http://www.w3.org/wai/apa
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > --
> > >
> > > Janina Sajka
> > >
> > > Linux Foundation Fellow
> > > Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup:       http://a11y.org
> > >
> > > The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI)
> > > Chair, Accessible Platform Architectures
> http://www.w3.org/wai/apa
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > --
> > *​John Foliot* | Principal Accessibility Strategist | W3C AC
> Representative
> > Deque Systems - Accessibility for Good
> > deque.com
>
> --
>
> Janina Sajka
>
> Linux Foundation Fellow
> Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup:       http://a11y.org
>
> The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI)
> Chair, Accessible Platform Architectures        http://www.w3.org/wai/apa
>
>

-- 
*​John Foliot* | Principal Accessibility Strategist | W3C AC Representative
Deque Systems - Accessibility for Good
deque.com