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Draft minutes 15 July 2015 teleconference

From: Frederick Hirsch <w3c@fjhirsch.com>
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2015 13:15:12 -0400
To: W3C Public Annotation List <public-annotation@w3.org>
Message-Id: <43187FA0-5F88-4662-91A5-9F332B1CC066@fjhirsch.com>
Attached are draft minutes from today's Web Annotation teleconference, 15 July 2015. Thanks to Chris Birk for scribing.

regards, Frederick

Frederick Hirsch
Co-Chair, W3C Web Annotation WG

www.fjhirsch.com
@fjhirsch


[![W3C][1]][2]

# Web Annotation Working Group Teleconference

## 15 Jul 2015

See also: [IRC log][3]

## Attendees

Present

    Frederick_Hirsch, Rob_Sanderson, Benjamin_Young, Matt_Haas, Jacob_Jett,
Tim_Cole, shepazu, Janina_Sarol, davis_salisbury, TB_Dinesh, Takeshi_Kanai,
chris_birk

Regrets

    Ray_Denenberg, Ivan_Herman, Paolo_Ciccarese, Ben_DeMeester

Chair

    Frederick_Hirsch, Rob_Sanderson

Scribe

    Chris Birk

## Contents

  * [Topics][4]

    1. [Agenda Review, Scribe Selection, Announcements][5]

    2. [Minutes Approval][6]

    3. [Protocol - Aspects][7]

    4. [Rangefinder][8]

    5. [Protocol - constraining HTTP][9]

    6. [Other Business][10]

    7. [Adjourn][11]

  * [Summary of Action Items][12]

* * *

<trackbot> Date: 15 July 2015

<fjh> Agenda: [https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-
annotation/2015Jul/0105.html][13]

<azaroth> scribenick: chrisbirk

<azaroth> scribe: Chris Birk

### Agenda Review, Scribe Selection, Announcements

fjh: we have regrets from Rob, Frederick and Ivan on 29 July, Doug are you
able to chair that call or should we cancel now?

shepazu: I can chair

azaroth: ok, thanks

### Minutes Approval

<fjh> proposed RESOLUTION: Minutes from 8 July approved,
[http://www.w3.org/2015/07/08-annotation-minutes.html][14]

**RESOLUTION: Minutes from 8 July approved, [http://www.w3.org/2015/07/08
-annotation-minutes.html][14]**

### Protocol - Aspects

<fjh> [https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-
annotation/2015Jul/0082.html][15]

bigbluehat: I think it might be saner to come at smaller deliverables

<azaroth> +1

<bigbluehat> w3.org/annotation

bigbluehat: social call reaction had a tough time digesting entire chart

<shepazu> [http://www.w3.org/annotation/diagrams/annotation-
architecture.svg][16]

<TimCole> This? [http://www.w3.org/annotation/diagrams/annotation-
architecture.svg][16]

shepazu: never intended SVG to represent protocol or any part of the spec. is
a conceptual overview

bigbluehat: address other parts of the chart and break out other deliverables

<fjh> **ACTION:** fjh to work on roadmap [recorded in
[http://www.w3.org/2015/07/15-annotation-minutes.html#action01][17]]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-22 - Work on roadmap [on Frederick Hirsch - due
2015-07-22].

fjh: we have some of these separated on the list. Need to be more explicit

<fjh> would ilke to see us discuss containers on today's call, believe Tim
Cole had some thoughts on that

azaroth: containers / musts triangle need some clarity on requirements

<fjh> [https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-
annotation/2015Jul/0141.html][18]

azaroth: would like to add query search mechanism on top of "follow your nose"
discovery

... replying to list in deeper detail

shepazu: is the architecture diagram causing problems?

bigbluehat: it's not causing any problems, but need to be more clear on what
we're covering.

<fjh> need to annotate the architecture diagram

<azaroth> +1 to non-normative overview doc

<fjh> +1 to architecture note

bigbluehat: HTTP API and client-side api broken out into sub-deliverables

<Zakim> azaroth, you wanted to ask re read/write separation

azaroth: a web resource would have a link header to discover a feed of
annotations. Not the only method of discovery

... I separate discovery from search. If it's not linked to from somewhere
it's search instead of discovery

bigbluehat: need to make sure we are explicit about vocabulary

<azaroth> +1

<Jacob> So separating browsing ([serendipitous] discovery) from search
([investigative] discovery)?

<azaroth> Jacob: Yep

bigbluehat: I'll add some user stories.

<Jacob> Makes sense to me. We do this in dig libs all the time. +1

<azaroth> Jacob: Right :)

<fjh> **ACTION:** shepazu to write use case about feed for discovery [recorded
in [http://www.w3.org/2015/07/15-annotation-minutes.html#action02][19]]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-23 - Write use case about feed for discovery [on
Doug Schepers - due 2015-07-22].

<fjh> **ACTION:** bigbluehat to write user story about discovery [recorded in
[http://www.w3.org/2015/07/15-annotation-minutes.html#action03][20]]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-24 - Write user story about discovery [on Benjamin
Young - due 2015-07-22].

<TimCole> need a use case focusing on discovery by relation of a
SpecificTarget to a Resourcd -- happy to do this use case if no one else is
covering

<fjh> **ACTION:** azaroth to write user story about discovery [recorded in
[http://www.w3.org/2015/07/15-annotation-minutes.html#action04][21]]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-25 - Write user story about discovery [on Robert
Sanderson - due 2015-07-22].

<bigbluehat> +1 to fjh writing down all the things

<fjh> these actions are all from different perspectives even though same
actions

bigbluehat: I can get mine written in a week

<fjh> all have plan to complete actions in week

<Zakim> azaroth, you wanted to ask read/write separation

<fjh> another item to be clear about

<TimCole> +1 for distinguishing between reading and writing

fjh: saving reading / writing for next discussion

<Zakim> tbdinesh, you wanted to ask if we should separate annotation service
from annotation repo

tbdinesh: would it make sense to separate annotation repositories from
services?

shepazu: what's the distinction between the two?

<Jacob> API vs database?

<fjh> rssagent, generate minutes

<azaroth> Service as automated user agent?

<fjh> aggregation service?

tbdinesh: hypothes.is example of a service. How do I allow access to my
annotations?

<fjh> tbdinesh: service - enables annotations, then publishes somewhere

<fjh> s/dbdinish: service/bigbluehat: service/

<bigbluehat> +1 to tbdinesh's desire for clarity around service (enabler of
annotation) and repository (storage of annotation)

<fjh> +1 to clarity around service etc

<Jacob> +1 to clarity

<Zakim> azaroth, you wanted to note fragments as well

TimCole: how to find annotations on a region of an image vs. the image in
general

azaroth: if you want to find annotations on a uri, get all annotations on
resource and annotations on part of the resource

<fjh> agree

<fjh> concern is that use cases cover different paths to finding annotations,
e.g. url of image vs url of section of image etc

<bigbluehat> TimCole: azaroth: earlier work on discovery:
[https://www.w3.org/annotation/wiki/Resource_Annotation_Discovery][22]

bigbluehat: let's not optimize away redundancy just yet

<TimCole> +1 http

### Rangefinder

shepazu: bring up rangefinder next week

... not ready to publish yet, need to complete algorithm

### Protocol - constraining HTTP

<fjh> benjamin email [https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-
annotation/2015Jul/0083.html][23]

<bigbluehat> azaroth: essentially, we'd be using "just" HTTP with only calling
out the required Link headers, media types, etc.

<bigbluehat> azaroth: vs. more tightly defining what must be done in various
cases.

azaroth: need to make a decision about exactly where on the spectrum of "use
existing" to "completely defining everything" we want to be

<Zakim> fjh, you wanted to ask about constraining

<Jacob> fjh: I think that's right

fjh: core issue is that if we constrain it more, it's breaking interop

bigbluehat: erik saying adding MUSTs constrains HTTP and puts more work on
developers.

<Zakim> azaroth, you wanted to assert it's not entirely true :)

azaroth: if we want to specify a system for creating annotation systems, and
you say POST is optional, you cannot create annotations within spec

... tradeoff between what the standard says and what implementers are going to
do.

shepazu: may not be able to resolve this within this group

<fjh> we have previously discussed asking the TAG, after updating the draft so
it is as clear as possible

shepazu: get Mark Nottingham involved

bigbluehat: I'll try to characterize the two positions with help from azaroth

<fjh> **ACTION:** bigbluehat to characterize issue related to HTTP profiling
and options to go forward [recorded in [http://www.w3.org/2015/07/15
-annotation-minutes.html#action05][24]]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-26 - Characterize issue related to http profiling
and options to go forward [on Benjamin Young - due 2015-07-22].

TimCole: would we require implementers to understand all specs involved?

bigbluehat: entire spec just for publishing own annotations is probably too
much overhead.

... should be a place to point people who have annotations and want to publish
that don't want to implement writeability

<TimCole> +1

chrisbirk: +1

<Jacob> +1

<tbdinesh> +1

<shepazu> +1

<TimCole> [https://github.com/uq-eresearch/lorestore/blob/master/src/main/reso
urces/OAConstraintsSPARQL.json][25]

### Other Business

<fjh> thank you Chris Birk for scribing

### Adjourn

## Summary of Action Items

**[NEW]** **ACTION:** azaroth to write user story about discovery [recorded in
[http://www.w3.org/2015/07/15-annotation-minutes.html#action04][21]]

**[NEW]** **ACTION:** bigbluehat to characterize issue related to HTTP
profiling and options to go forward [recorded in [http://www.w3.org/2015/07/15
-annotation-minutes.html#action05][24]]

**[NEW]** **ACTION:** bigbluehat to write user story about discovery [recorded
in [http://www.w3.org/2015/07/15-annotation-minutes.html#action03][20]]

**[NEW]** **ACTION:** fjh to work on roadmap [recorded in
[http://www.w3.org/2015/07/15-annotation-minutes.html#action01][17]]

**[NEW]** **ACTION:** shepazu to write use case about feed for discovery
[recorded in [http://www.w3.org/2015/07/15-annotation-
minutes.html#action02][19]]


[End of minutes]

* * *

Minutes formatted by David Booth's [scribe.perl][26] version 1.135 ([CVS
log][27])

$Date: 2009-03-02 03:52:20 $

   [1]: http://www.w3.org/Icons/w3c_home

   [2]: http://www.w3.org/

   [3]: http://www.w3.org/2015/07/15-annotation-irc

   [4]: #agenda

   [5]: #item01

   [6]: #item02

   [7]: #item03

   [8]: #item04

   [9]: #item05

   [10]: #item06

   [11]: #item07

   [12]: #ActionSummary

   [13]: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-
annotation/2015Jul/0105.html

   [14]: http://www.w3.org/2015/07/08-annotation-minutes.html

   [15]: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-
annotation/2015Jul/0082.html

   [16]: http://www.w3.org/annotation/diagrams/annotation-architecture.svg

   [17]: http://www.w3.org/2015/07/15-annotation-minutes.html#action01

   [18]: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-
annotation/2015Jul/0141.html

   [19]: http://www.w3.org/2015/07/15-annotation-minutes.html#action02

   [20]: http://www.w3.org/2015/07/15-annotation-minutes.html#action03

   [21]: http://www.w3.org/2015/07/15-annotation-minutes.html#action04

   [22]: https://www.w3.org/annotation/wiki/Resource_Annotation_Discovery

   [23]: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-
annotation/2015Jul/0083.html

   [24]: http://www.w3.org/2015/07/15-annotation-minutes.html#action05

   [25]: https://github.com/uq-
eresearch/lorestore/blob/master/src/main/resources/OAConstraintsSPARQL.json

   [26]: http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm

   [27]: http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/


Received on Wednesday, 15 July 2015 17:15:45 UTC

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