Re: KR for Human in the Loop": Two challenges related to KR..

Carl and all

Thanks for offering to organise a call- I somewhat glad to see that the
overall mission for this AI KR CG is
* starting to sink in, :-)*

 it may be good to hear how CG members tackle the challenge from their
perspective  (that may include stratml?)

Please excuse me for probably not attending call at this stage, but look
forward to learn about possible useful conversations you may hold if
someone signs up for it.  This area is very complex

In addition to the call, or as an alternative to the call, or both, may I
suggest that  you consider inviting interested members to contribute a
paragraph (on a wiki) by
a) defining the challenges/problems not yet met taking ito account the
state of the art,which is vast and mysterious (this implying have a grasp
of the SOTA which is a tough one, but every little bit helps)
b) making a short statement of interest as how the member in question
addresses/ solves such challenges, including pointers to relevant work such
as papers, talks , publication or display of interest in the topic

This could help us gather the field without unnecessary expectation and
maybe stimulate members to pull their act together-
Keeping in mind the overall mission of a possible WG, can we every draft
anything from W3C point of view based on what emerges?
In fact, I would be inclined to invite to a call only members who have
formulated
their expression of interest in an articulate form *ie, qualifying members

or something like that

cheers
P


On Wed, Nov 23, 2022 at 2:52 AM carl mattocks <carlmattocks@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Paola, Pete et al
>
> Thanks for your comments and phrasing used in the modified call below..
>
> I invite everyone to indicate your level of interest in participating in a
> series of meetings :
>
>    - Objective is to determine how to Use KR to support H*umans in the AI
>    loop*
>    - One task is to explain the challenges that Human in the Loop
>    Knowledge Representation would  address.
>    - Startpoint is the document produced during our meetings on  'Leveraging
>    the StratML specification for AIKR'
>
>
> Happy Thanksgiving
>
> Carl Mattocks
>
> It was a pleasure to clarify
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 21, 2022 at 9:20 PM Paola Di Maio <paola.dimaio@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Carl, Human in the AI loop is a good idea,
>>
>> Human in the loop is very broad, what about being a touch more precise
>>
>> *Using KR to support humans in the AI loop*
>> (maybe you can phrase it even better)
>>
>> The goals and content would have to be aligned to the title
>> StratML however useful is neither specific to AI or KR
>>
>> i have absolutely no problem with the fact that Owen translates every
>> statement
>> to stratML, however this list is not about stratml at all
>> apparently some members are confused by the frequency of stratml posts
>> and wonder if this list is about stratml
>>
>> May we suggest that Owen, when kindly and cheerfully makes a stratml page
>> for everything that we discuss here, refrains from making each time a
>> public announcement on the list about it, and just pings the statement
>> owner ?
>>
>> Owen of course you are very welcome to continue to contribute to all
>> discussions, but maybe we do not need to be informed everytime you make a
>> stratml entry?
>> what do you think? :-)
>> I think there may be scope for using stratML to make explicit statements
>> about AI, each AI could have a stratML like schema to declare what it does
>> and how it does it
>> however if I remember correctly you said you have no plan to modify
>> stratML at the moment
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Nov 22, 2022 at 4:28 AM Peter Rivett <
>> pete.rivett@federatedknowledge.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Carl,
>>> I don't know if it's a copy-and-paste error but I don't see how the
>>> title "KR for Human in the Loop" matches the objective which is about the
>>> somewhat legacy XML language StratML; which AFAIK is for strategic
>>> performance planning as opposed to AI, human involvement in AI, or
>>> knowledge representation except for the very narrow domain of knowledge of
>>> strategic plans.
>>>
>>> Apologies for missing background from previous pre-COVID discussions,
>>> but I'm sure I won't be the only one: are there any archives or outputs?
>>> Maybe an explanation of the specific problem space related to Human in
>>> the Loop Knowledge Representation would help: for example the competency
>>> questions it's hoped to address.
>>>
>>> Regards
>>> Pete
>>>
>>> Pete Rivett (pete.rivett@federatedknowledge.com)
>>> Federated Knowledge, LLC (LEI 98450013F6D4AFE18E67)
>>> Schedule a meeting at https://calendly.com/rivettp
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>> *From:* carl mattocks <carlmattocks@gmail.com>
>>> *Sent:* Monday, November 21, 2022 10:29 AM
>>> *To:* Dave Raggett <dsr@w3.org>; W3C AIKR CG <public-aikr@w3.org>
>>> *Cc:* Stanislav Srednyak, Ph.D. <stanislav.srednyak@duke.edu>
>>> *Subject:* KR for Human in the Loop": Two challenges related to KR..
>>>
>>> KR Folk
>>>
>>> To Give a measure of Thanks at this time of Thanks Giving .. I invite
>>> members to show their level of interest in participating in a regular
>>> conference call to discuss "KR for Human in the Loop"
>>>
>>> Objective is to continue defining  how "StratML" helps explain AI KR.
>>> Specifically, before Covid, we had mapped out how "Human in Loop" was a
>>> significant factor in shaping use of AI KR .. But we had no "language" for
>>> that interaction.
>>>
>>> Cheers
>>>
>>> Carl Mattocks
>>> CarlMattocks@WellnessIntelligence.Institute
>>> It was a pleasure to clarify
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Nov 21, 2022 at 6:05 AM Dave Raggett <dsr@w3.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> If you want an natural language notation for math, you might be
>>> interested in EasyMath from work in the late nineties:
>>>
>>> EzMath provides an easy to learn notation for embedding mathematical
>>> expressions in Web pages. The notation is inspired by how expressions are
>>> spoken aloud together with a few abbreviations for conciseness (e.g. x^y
>>> denotes x raised to the power y).
>>>
>>>
>>> See:
>>>
>>> https://www.w3.org/People/Raggett/EzMath/
>>> https://www.w3.org/People/Raggett/EzMath/EzMathPaper.html
>>>
>>> Sadly, the browser plugin is now defunct as it relies on an interface
>>> long abandoned by modern browsers.  It wouldn’t be that hard (one week's
>>> work) to reimplement it as a JavaScript library using the HTML CANVAS
>>> element as its target.
>>>
>>> However, that is a million miles from work on AI agents like Minerva.
>>>
>>> Minerva is a sophisticated deep learning based system. It starts from
>>> general purpose large language model (PaLM) and refines it with training
>>> against a mathematical dataset, producing impressive results.
>>>
>>> https://arxiv.org/pdf/2206.14858.pdf
>>>
>>> However, the approach described in the paper (linked above) is limited
>>> to agents with a single purpose. For agents designed for general purposes,
>>> we need a more flexible approach. That is why I am proposing work on direct
>>> manipulation of latent semantics, along with mimicking the way that the
>>> brain separates different kinds of knowledge across different parts of the
>>> cortex. The idea is to combine intuitive (System 1) thinking with
>>> deliberative, analytic thinking (System 2).  Minerva only supports the
>>> former.
>>>
>>> On 21 Nov 2022, at 10:00, Paola Di Maio <paola.dimaio@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> You and I are on different planets, and speak different languages :-)
>>>
>>>
>>> So it seems. :-)
>>>
>>> Dave Raggett <dsr@w3.org>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>