Re: Joint PMWG-APAWG meeting today - summary

Matthew, everyone,

here are the meeting minutes of our meeting yesterday:

 https://w3c.github.io/pm-wg/minutes/2025-10-30.html

Cheers

Ivan

> On 30 Oct 2025, at 17:05, Matthew Atkinson <m.atkinson@samsung.com> wrote:
> 
> Hello APA, Pronunciation, Adapt, and PMWG!
> 
> Thanks again to PMWG for hosting us for our first TPAC call [1]! We covered
> three main areas. Here is a summary from my perspective, but I'm sure I'm
> missing something, so you can also refer to the excellent minutes [2].
> 
> Thanks to all the APA folks who attended (and to everyone who contributed to
> our discussions on these topics during and prior). Feel free to add anything
> I missed to this summary.
> 
> tl;dr: Lots of interesting work being explored by both groups, and there's
> more to work on together.
> 
> 
> // Extended descriptions (the main focus of the call)
> 
> * We explored a couple of alternative branches here...
> 
> * Keeping with the technical problem: exploring the use of `rel` attribute
> values; possibly with a matching token that could be used as a `role`. The
> idea that finding a solution that works with both inter- and intra-document
> links may be desirable. Also the idea that if e.g. a `<details>` element was
> marked up as being an extended description, the eReader could display it as
> a pop-up, so it would not break pagination.
> 
> * Thinking about whether the web needs a 'take me back to where I was
> (including cursor, virtual cursor, etc. position)' feature.
> 
> * Importance of involving ARIA in the process (they are).
> 
> * Next steps were that the group would look at turning the (very clear)
> document they have into an Explainer. APA is happy to review, and I expect
> TAG would be too - this is something that could apply to the whole web.
> 
> * Risks involve the comparisons to `longdesc` - the group wants to to
> something a bit different, which is to identify content that already exists
> as the extended description. (Personal note: I think we'd still need to go
> to some effort to make sure that the content is expected to be visible and
> discoverable for all users.)
> 
> 
> // Pronunciation (only a short time on the call)
> 
> * It was felt to be an opportune time to be working on these problems.
> 
> * The current state of specs is not great.
> 
> * It was suggested that we try working on Web Speech API first.
> 
> * Bilingual texts can cause jarring shifts in voice used - this is big UX
> issue.
> 
> * SSML (likely not our intended new approach) has barriers from the
> publishing/deployment angle too.
> 
> 
> // Symbols (only a few mins - so far)
> 
> * <ruby> _should_ work in eReaders (but need to check, maybe better
> supported in some areas than others).
> 
> * There isn't a formal spec to indicate when a (current) ruby is for
> pronunciation, or reading (content).
> 
> * We were asked: is there a symbol for 'extended description'?
> 
> 
> // Summary
> 
> We had a great meeting, covered a lot of ground, and realised there's more
> for us to talk about together, so we will be keeping tabs on PMWG's work,
> and sharing ours with them when we can, and most likely talking again not
> too long after TPAC.
> 
> best regards,
> 
> 
> Matthew
> 
> [1]
> <https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/d4de58aa-59e8-4071-83d9-d7ff2c795858/202
> 51030T090000/>
> [2] <https://w3c.github.io/pm-wg/minutes/2025-10-30.html>
> 
> Matthew Atkinson
> Head of Web Standards
> Samsung R&D Institute UK
> Samsung Electronics
> +44 7733 238 020
> 
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> 


----
Ivan Herman, W3C 
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