- From: Bennet Yee <bsy@cs.ucsd.edu>
- Date: Wed, 24 Apr 1996 16:03:09 -0700
- To: Tatu Ylonen <ylo@ssh.fi>
- Cc: dpkemp@missi.ncsc.mil (David P. Kemp), ietf-tls@w3.org
Actually, using the pre-encrypted data mechanism to handle hardware-encrypted data is *not* appropriate. The problem is as follows: the ChangeCipherSpec message is defined to send the key for the pre-encrypted data. If we want to claim that the encryption hardware is more secure than the host handling that connection, we should not trust the host to properly encrypt the hardware encryption key for transfer to the client either. Certainly if the hardware key is encrypted with the TLS session key, the security of (the pre-encrypted portion of) the channel is only as good as the worse of the two keys. As for the comment about Moore's law, I don't think we should rely on it to mask our inefficiencies. We -should- worry about it when we decide on things like key lengths, rather (but that's a different topic.) Yes, the pre-encrypted data idea is oriented towards reducing the load on heavily loaded servers that need security, not their clients -- that's precisely the scenario that I had drawn in the first message. While this is not a _general_ point-to-point transport security issue, running TLS on web servers _is_ the main application. (People who want to use TLS for secure telnet is unlikely to care -- though the pre-encrypted data mechanism can benefit that as well when used with a slow stream cipher.) Regarding the idea of renegotiating for NULL encryption when sending pre-encrypted data, that is not a good idea. The idea of providing the pre-encryption mechanism (also applies to the on-the-fly compression found in SSLv3) is to hide the complexity from the client. Yes, if client programs are all smart and understand when the data stream changes from normally encrypted traffic to pre-encrypted-and-NULL-encrypted traffic, things would work, but the point of providing the TLS abstraction is to hide such complexities from the clients. After all, the clients could just as well do their own crypto. > 1) How much time does the PCTv2 pre-encryption handshake save over > the standard SSLv3 resume-session handshake?, and These are apples and oranges. Resume session provides a means to avoid the public key crypto overhead while obtaining fresh session keys. These session keys are used to private-key encrypt the traffic. Because of the way these keys are derived, this mechanism forces on-the-fly encryption and decryption. The pre-encryption mechanism assumes session keys are in place, regardless of whether they were derived from a complete handshake or from a resumed session. The pre-encryption mechanism aims to avoid the private-key encryption overhead for data that is (re)transmitted to many parties by permitting "backend" encryption at the server (change keys once in a while when machine is lightly loaded, etc). > 2) if the answer to 1 is greater than epsilon, what analysis has been > done to show that the pre-encryption handshake does not introduce > new vulnerabilities to the protocol? The same kind of analysis that is due any security protocol -- review by security researchers/practitioners. I don't know whether enough has been done yet -- personally, I've looked at it for only a few hours (classes to teach, grants to apply for :), and haven't looked at the protocol as a whole at all (there may be interactions between how pre-encryption is handled and other parts of STLP.) I don't see anything wrong with the idea of making Web security technologies more scalable. It does not reduce the security from existing practice, and rather than just acting on fear that a particular design may be erroneous (which I believe isn't), I would hope that we instead look at exactly how much more complicated does it make the protocol (which I believe is "not significantly") and weigh the risks against the benefits. -bsy -------- Bennet S. Yee Phone: +1 619 534 4614 Email: bsy@cs.ucsd.edu Web: http://www-cse.ucsd.edu/users/bsy/ USPS: Dept of Comp Sci and Eng, 0114, UC San Diego, La Jolla, CA 92093-0114
Received on Wednesday, 24 April 1996 19:03:31 UTC