- From: Joe Touch <touch@isi.edu>
- Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2016 16:01:57 -0700
- To: Adrien de Croy <adrien@qbik.com>, Willy Tarreau <w@1wt.eu>
- Cc: Mark Nottingham <mnot@mnot.net>, "tcpm@ietf.org" <tcpm@ietf.org>, HTTP Working Group <ietf-http-wg@w3.org>, Patrick McManus <pmcmanus@mozilla.com>, Daniel Stenberg <daniel@haxx.se>
This is a bit of a side track, but... On 8/17/2016 3:51 PM, Adrien de Croy wrote: > > > ------ Original Message ------ > From: "Joe Touch" <touch@isi.edu> > >> They want something different for a variety of reasons - the same kind >> of airtight logic by which TBL developed HTTP instead of using FTP (he >> said that you'd only typically need one file from a location, so why >> open 2 connections? now we're stuck trying to mux control and data >> rather than having a proper solution that already existed at the time - >> it took nearly a decade for HTTP servers to catch up to the performance >> of FTP). >> > Whilst I've been finding this discussion very informative and > interesting, I have to raise an objection on this point. > > FTP was never going to be suitable for the web, and a very simple RTT > analysis shows that. > > Apart from initial 3 way TCP handshake and close, which is the same > for both, with http you have a request and a response, whereas FTP > requires you to wait for the server welcome, log in, negotiate another > port, set up a data connection in addition to retrieving the file That's only the first time you go somewhere new. You don't need to close both ports so quickly; the control channel can stay open and you thus avoid HOL blocking between data and control (and thus the need to chunk-and-mux within persistent HTTP), which increases other delays for HTTP. Neither protocol matches exactly what is really needed for a true transaction-oriented protocol. > ... > Then try adding all the firewall issues due to transmitting data > connection endpoint information over the control connection and it's > no surprise FTP is not favoured for downloads. FTP had a passive mode even back then that avoids this issue. It also had suspend/resume, compression, and format conversion. Joe
Received on Wednesday, 17 August 2016 23:03:22 UTC