- From: Alcides Viamontes E <alcidesv@zunzun.se>
- Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2016 10:01:55 +0100
- To: Kazuho Oku <kazuhooku@gmail.com>
- Cc: HTTP Working Group <ietf-http-wg@w3.org>
Hello, Thanks for your response Kazuho. I need to do some thinking before fully addressing your comments, since you add valuable information that I didn't consider before. At the risk of adding some noise (please forgive me for that), I will write a few quick remarks: > Your calculation is wrong. A 200-entry GCS (with 1/512 false positive > rate) will be slightly larger than 225 bytes (log2(512) * 200 bits) in > binary form. That's good news! My Google's cookie is 1246 bytes long. If we are not talking about several kilobytes, then the restrictions are less. I would like to know more about the expectations for intermediaries. As of today, HTTP/2 is working with TLS, therefore the website operator needs to bless the HTTP/2 edge server with the SSL certificate's private key. Maybe we can hope that website operators will choose an HTTP/2 stack that does what he/she intends? In other words, I think we shouldn't make the spec more difficult to use just to accommodate potential issues with intermediaries. In that light, we could perhaps require intermediaries to use a cache digest mindfully. In any case please forgive me for my lack of data, this is just food for thoughts and I will be glad to know more about how things look right now with HTTP/2 intermediaries and caches. I will write a more detailed follow-up a few weeks from now. I will also try to make a polyfill implementation using service workers and ShimmerCat to learn how this looks in practice. Bests, ./Alcides. On Tue, Jan 12, 2016 at 2:04 AM, Kazuho Oku <kazuhooku@gmail.com> wrote: > 2016-01-11 2:11 GMT+09:00 Alcides Viamontes E <alcidesv@zunzun.se>: >> Hello, >> >> My interest in the draft "Cache Digests for HTTP/2" >> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-kazuho-h2-cache-digest/ >> concerns the original, intended use case that Mr. Kakuho Oku and Mr. >> M. Nottingham cited. As the authors, I would like very much like to >> see this made a standard and implemented in browsers. However, I >> perceive a few issues. Beforehand, I apologize for this long email, >> for any gaps in my understanding of the subject, and for not being >> familiar with the language and procedures used in this list. > > Thank you for your feedback! > >> Here are the issues that I see: >> >> 1.- In its current wording, no information about which version of a >> representation the browser already has is present in the cache digest. >> That information can be included in the URL itself (cache busting), >> but then it becomes a concern for web-developers, adds complexity to >> their work, and bypasses the mechanisms that HTTP has in place for >> maintaining cache state. It also increases space pressure in the the >> browser's cache as the server is left with no means to expire old >> cached contents in the browser. > > That is a very good point. > > Let me first discuss the restrictions of the cache model used by HTTP, > and then go on to discuss what we should do if we are to fix the point > you raised. > > First about the restriction; the resources in the cache can be divided > into two groups: fresh and non-fresh. A server should never push a > resource that is considered as fresh in the client's cache. Clients > will not notice the push / the HTTP/2 allows client to discard such > push. Therefore, a CACHE_DIGEST frame > must include a filter that marks the resources that are marked as > being fresh. That is what the current draft specifies. > > Next about the point of including version information (e.g. > Last-Modified, ETag) in the cache digest. I believe we can add a > second Golomb-coded set to the frame that uses hash(URI + version > information) as the key. A server can refer to the information to > determine whether if it should push a 304 response or a 200 response. > > The downside is that the CACHE_DIGEST frame may become larger (if the > server sends many responses that would become non-fresh), so it might > be sensible to allow the client to decide if it should send the second > Golomb-coded set. > > In addition, we should agree on how to push 304 response. My > understanding is that HTTP/2 spec., is vague on this, and that there > has not yet been an agreement between the client developers on how it > should be done. > > Once that is solved, I think we should update the I-D to cover the > version information as well. > >> 2.- There is no way for the server to know that a CACHE_DIGEST frame >> is coming immediately after a HEADERS frame. A server may trigger some >> processing already after the end of headers has been received, while >> making further DATA frames available as a stream of data to the >> application. With CACHE_DIGEST frames, the cache aware server will >> have to delay processing until the end of the stream has been seen to >> be sure that no CACHE_DIGEST frame is coming, or would have to >> re-start processing on seeing the frame. Arguably this is not a big >> problem for GET requests with an empty body, but it would be nice if >> the spec didn't force the server to wait for the end of the stream. > > Agreed. > > There are three options here (the draft adopts option C): > > a) send CACHE_DIGEST frame right before HEADERS > b) send CACHE_DIGEST frame at stream_id=zero, with the value of the > authority that should be associated to the digest included within the > frame > c) send CACHE_DIGEST frame right after HEADERS > > B is clearly the easiest but would have a small impact on the consumed > bandwidth, since the authority needs to be sent separately. > > In A, the server does not need to delay the processing of the request, > but needs to cache the value of the digest. > > It would be great to discuss which of the three approach will be the > best solution in general (or if there could be other approaches). > >> 3. - Traditionally, cache state information has been placed in HTTP >> header fields. A CACHE_DIGEST frame puts some of that information in a >> new place, which is sure to cause some pain to web developers and >> sys-admins trying to understand the behavior of their applications. > > CACHE_DIGEST frame should not be a HTTP header, since including the > value in every HTTP request (as a header) will make the HTTP requests > huge. Since the client's cache state changes as the server sends > responses, we cannot expect HPACK to effectively compress the > requests. We should send cache digest only once per HTTP/2 > connection. > (note that intermediaries are allowed to re-order the HTTP requests > sent from a client, so it is impossible to include the digest only in > the first HTTP request as a header). > > The other reason is that the digest should be hop-by-hop. The default > behavior of a proxy (that do not understand the extension) should be > to drop the digest. > >> 4.- The draft assumes a somewhat more restricted scope of Push than >> allowed by the HTTP/2 spec, RFC7540, and to some extent, goes against >> current practice. Section 8.2 of RFC7540, "Server Push", says "The >> server MUST include a value in the :authority" pseudo-header field for >> which the server is authoritative". Section 10.1 defines server >> authority by referring to [RFC7230], Section 9.1. For the HTTPS case, >> a server is authoritative for a domain if it can present a certificate >> that covers that domain. To the point, RFC7540 does not forbids a >> server to push resources for different domains, provided that it has >> the right credentials. Pushing assets for a domain different than the >> one where the request is received is useful when considering the way >> web applications are structured today: many serve their application >> logic using a www.example.com domain, while serving their static >> assets at static.example.com . Therefore, upon receiving a request to >> www.example.com, a server may want to push resources for >> static.example.com. However, section 2.1 of the draft works against >> that use case. > > Thank you for pointing that out. > > I think that for plaintext HTTP we agree that the client needs to > associate the name of the authority to the digest that it sends > (including one of the three options discussed above). > > Considering the case for HTTPS, may be we should better allow the > client whether or not to associate an authority. > >> 5.- A last issue has to do with what to include in the cache digest. >> Mr. Oku proposes to only push resources which are in the critical >> render path in his article at [1]. Correspondingly, the cache digest >> would only need to include those resources. Can we have a simple >> mechanism to control the cache digest contents? > > It is obvious that providing a way to specify the resources that > should be included in the cache digest will let clients generate more > compact digest values. > > The downside is that it would be difficult for server administrators > to _change_ a resource to become part of the digest. Consider the > case where a server has send resource A that is not being marked as > part of the digest, and then the server administrator then changes the > configuration for resource A to be included in part of the digest. > The client will not include A in the digest it sends, since it is not > marked. The server will push the A to the client since it is not > included in the digest. (As discussed above) a client may discard the > resource being pushed. So A will continued to be pushed every time a > new request is issued. > > Considering such possibility, it would be less troublesome if we could > go without introducing a way to configure what should be included in > the digest. > > >> I can provide some data and some rough suggestions to address the issues above. >> >> How big would a cache digest be anyway? >> ------------------------------------------------------- >> >> To address issues 2 and 3 we need to determine how constrained we are >> regarding space. We have made a little study[2] across 1300 sites >> submitted by performance-conscious site operators, and from there we >> can establish that while 50% of sites fetch between 25 and 110 >> resources, it is not too rare to have sites doing more than 200 HTTP >> requests. If anything, that number is going to grow. Specially with >> HTTP/2. Let's then use 200 as a ballpark estimate of the number of >> items in a cache digest and start from there. >> >> The source that the draft includes for Golomb-coded-sets (GCS) hints >> that it is possible to use the number of bits in a Bloom filter as an >> upper bound for the size of the corresponding GCS. Therefore, with a >> digest of size 200, we would be using an upper bound of 200*1.44*512 >> bits, which is around 18 kB is expressed as binary, and around 24 kB >> if expressed in ascii form, base64-encoded, assuming a false positive >> probability of 1/512. > > Your calculation is wrong. A 200-entry GCS (with 1/512 false positive > rate) will be slightly larger than 225 bytes (log2(512) * 200 bits) in > binary form. > >> Notice that by using PUSH the browser may skip many of those requests. >> In our site (https://www.shimmercat.com), we have measured HTTP/2 >> requests averaging at 60 bytes per request. Therefore, one may end up >> saving up to 200 * 60 = 12 kB in traffic, bringing down the previous >> numbers to 18 kB -12 kB =6 kB and 24 kB - 12 kB = 12 kB. I think that >> 12 kB is acceptable for a site with 200 requests, specially since >> HTTP/2 PUSH would greatly increase the data transfer density for those >> sites. >> >> >> Can we embed the cache digest in a header? >> ------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> Having 24 kB of cache digest in a header may delay processing the >> request more than acceptable, since most servers will wait to get the >> entire header block before starting to create an answer. There is an >> alternative however, and that would be to put a field with the cache >> digest in a request trailer, allowed with chunked transfer under >> HTTP/1.1 and in all streams with HTTP/2. The pros of having the cache >> digest in a header or trailer field are the following: we don't break >> with the tradition of exchanging cache state through headers, headers >> are visible to developers' tools, it would be possible to test things >> using polyfills and service workers while the browsers catch up with >> native implementations, no extensions to HTTP/2 are needed, and cache >> digests would become possible even over plain old HTTP/1.1. It can >> also be made a little more future-proof: >> >> In the headers: >> >> cache-digest: trailers >> >> (the indication above is not needed however if the cache-digest-scope >> is used, see below) >> >> In the trailers: >> >> cache-digest: data:application/golomb-coded-set;base64,..... >> >> The cons is that ascii is bigger than binary. >> >> Even if the CACHE_DIGEST frame is pursued, it would be nice to have >> >> cache-digest: frame >> >> as part of the request (and this time in the headers section, not the >> trailers) for the server to recognize that a cache digest frame is >> coming and for developers to have a hint that said information is >> being transmitted between client and server. >> >> >> Distinguishing representation versions in the cache digest (Addressing point 1) >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> The GCS filter requires the client and the server to be able to >> compute the same hash key for a given resource and version. As far as >> I understand, having semantics here similar to if-modified-since would >> not be possible. But strong etags could be used when computing the >> key, therefore enabling the equivalent to if-none-match. Step 4 in the >> algorithm of section 2.1 of the draft could be extended to have the >> etag used together with the URL when taking the hash. >> >> >> Which representations should be part of the digest? (Addressing point 4 and 5) >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> I suggest to introduce the concept of cache digest scope. Only >> representations which were given a cache digest scope would be made >> part of a cache digest. And the set of representations URLs to be >> included by the client in the digest would be the intersection of: >> >> 1. The set of representations that have the same cache digest scope in >> the browser's cache than the domain of the first request (the >> document), and >> 2. The set of representations in the browser's cache for which the >> server is considered authoritative. >> >> The cache digest scope would be unique per domain. >> >> In other words, it would look like the following: >> >> Client asks for >> https://www.example.com/ >> Server answers, and adds a header >> cache-digest-scope: example >> The server then answers or pushes >> https://static.example.com/styles.css , >> it uses the same header >> cache-digest-scope: example. >> >> The server also answers or pushes >> https://media.example.com/hero-1.png, >> but no cache-digest-scope is provided. >> >> >> .... some time after, when a new connection is established by the same >> client to fetch another page from the same domain: >> >> Client asks for (a different page) >> https://www.example.com/page1.html , >> now the client specifies a header >> cache-digest-scope: example >> client also provides a cache digest with all >> the resources that were assigned >> the same cache digest scope by the server. >> That digest would include the resource from >> https://static.example.com/styles.css >> but not the one at >> https://media.example.com/hero-1.png >> >> The server answers and pushes a 304 not modified for >> https://static.example.com/styles.css , >> or a 200 with new contents, using a cache contents >> aware PUSH_PROMISE frame. >> >> >> This mechanism addresses 4 by allowing digests to extend over >> multiple domains, and addresses 5 by allowing the server to control >> which assets are part of the digest: resources *without* the >> "cache-digest-scope" header are never made part of the digest. Also, >> the holder of a wildcard certificate can still use it to host separate >> multi-domain applications, for example (app1.example.com, >> static1.example.com with cache digest scope "1") and >> (app2.example.com, static2.example.com with cache digest scope "2"), >> without fearing the cache digest to grow too big. Furthermore, if a >> server doesn't implement PUSH or otherwise doesn't use the cache >> digest, it implicitly opts out of cache digests, saving bandwidth. >> >> The cache-digest-scope: xxxx header would be idem in most requests and >> responses, and HPACK in HTTP/2 could compress it to a few bytes by >> using the dynamic table. >> >> Best regards, >> >> ---- >> Alcides. >> >> >> [1] http://blog.kazuhooku.com/2015/12/optimizing-performance-of-multi-tiered.html >> [2] http://nbviewer.ipython.org/github/shimmercat/art_timings/blob/master/TimingsOfResourceLoads.ipynb >> > > > > -- > Kazuho Oku
Received on Tuesday, 12 January 2016 09:02:25 UTC