Re: HSTS Misuse

For lack of some prior discussion of this caveat, it would be great to hear
some opinions. While it is possible for a server provider to give the
domain owner the choice to enable hsts, I have concluded that it may be
best for a 3rd party to never implement hsts on a domain owner's behalf.
This would altogether prevent the caveat for an unwitting domain owner.
On Mon, May 23, 2016 at 6:38 AM Philipp Junghannß <teamhydro55555@gmail.com>
wrote:

> also lets not forget that what will happen if we have an obnoxiouslyy long
> HSTS and the domain gets sold? have fun eating that one.
> obviously the issue gets even better with HPKP. for HSTS you can can get
> around with letsencrypt and ANY other trusted certs but HPKP pins specific
> keys, in other words when for example the previous server/owner or whoever
> has pinned some EV CAs and the next owner is an individual, that person can
> forget it because (for some stupid reason) individuals cant get EV certs.
>
> 2016-05-23 12:33 GMT+02:00 Dennis Olvany <dennisolvany@gmail.com>:
>
>> That is precisely the caveat, Philipp. If the server is not controlled by
>> the domain owner then there is the possibility that an hsts implementation
>> could impact the domain owner's ability to repurpose the domain for non-ssl
>> service.
>>
>> On Mon, May 23, 2016 at 6:16 AM Philipp Junghannß <
>> teamhydro55555@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> a DNS based HSTS is a great Idea and when used with DNSSec it gets even
>>> better because (obvious) nobody can try and forge headers.
>>>
>>> to address the issue of Dennis Olvan: The server (owned e.g. by some
>>> provider) IS using HTTPS but uses HSTS without the permission of the domain
>>> owner, which results in the scenario that he cannot use plaintext or mixed
>>> when changing the server, or repurposing the domain. That's what I think he
>>> means.
>>>
>>> 2016-05-2311:49 GMT+02:00 Solarus Lumenor <solarus@ultrawaves.fr>:
>>>
>>> Le 2016-05-22 15:13, Dennis Olvany a écrit :
>>>>
>>>> I suppose third-party HSTS may be a good way to describe the scenario I
>>>> propose. To be more clear, let's say that the https server is provided by a
>>>> web hosting company and their customer is the domain owner.
>>>>
>>>> Hello.
>>>>
>>>> In my opinion its a bad practice that should be avoided.
>>>>
>>>> For a domain given, a HTTPS server must only use HSTS if it serves
>>>> fully-encrypted content.
>>>> If it serves plain-text or mixed-content for a domain that uses HSTS,
>>>> it’s an error.
>>>>
>>>> If you want to redirect HTTPS connexion to plain-text content then you
>>>> MUST NOT use HSTS on all the servers or CDN serving this domain.
>>>> If one or more Virtual Host activate HSTS on your domain, your clients
>>>> will be stuck for a while.
>>>>
>>>> As long as HSTS in DNS is not standardized or implemented, the domain
>>>> owner does not matters, it’s only a server problem.
>>>>
>>>> Solarus
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>