- From: Willy Tarreau <w@1wt.eu>
- Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2014 07:12:59 +0100
- To: Tim Bray <tbray@textuality.com>
- Cc: Greg Wilkins <gregw@intalio.com>, Mark Nottingham <mnot@mnot.net>, HTTP <ietf-http-wg@w3.org>
On Wed, Nov 19, 2014 at 08:24:37PM -0800, Tim Bray wrote: > On Wed, Nov 19, 2014 at 8:13 PM, Greg Wilkins <gregw@intalio.com> wrote: > > You???re mostly right, but here???s where you???re wrong: > > > ?????? > > ?????? > > Encrypting is not going to help with any of these problems > > ??? > > > > ???Yes, it will *help*. No, it will not ???*solve* them, and solving them is > important, but providing help now is a good thing to do. No it will not help. It confuses users, and the *only* way to help is to make it very clear to them whether they're safe or not. It's not by saying "it's almost safe" that you'll help them. People using public WiFi at cafes believe they're surfing without anyone knowing what they're doing because they see a nice green pattern in their URL bar, yet they don't even know that everyone around knows what site they're surfing and that based on the MAC you can even classify who does what when multiple users do the same in parallel. Internet protocols are complex and the details are not easy to understand for the non-tech people. Continuously telling them "don't worry, if you see a green lock it means nobody can see what you're doing" is a lie and just trains them never to wonder. Users need to be taught reality first, and once they're aware of the risks it becomes possible to offer various protection grades. If you do it the reverse way it will be even more complicated for them to know when it's safe and when it's not. At minima, there could be a help box in browsers saying what is visible and what is not, for each connection : Do people around me see what site I'm surfing Yes/No Do people around me see the contents I'm retrieving/sending Yes/No May people around me pretend to be the website and see everything I do Yes/No Does the network administrator see what site I'm surfing Yes/No Does the network administrator see the contents I'm retrieving/sending Yes/No May the network administrator pretend to be the website and see what I do Yes/No Does the network administrator have a way to recognize me next time Yes/No Does the website have a way to recognize me next time Yes/No Does the website know where I am located Yes/No Does the website have more info about me Yes/No Do third party web site know what I'm seeing on this web site Yes/No etc... Depending on clear/encrypted/self-signed/authenticated, and same for proxies, the results above will change and may already surprize a huge number of users. Willy
Received on Thursday, 20 November 2014 06:13:27 UTC