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Re: New Version Notification for draft-tbray-http-legally-restricted-status-00.txt

From: Mark Nottingham <mnot@mnot.net>
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2012 20:21:16 +1000
Cc: "Roy T. Fielding" <fielding@gbiv.com>, Tim Bray <tbray@textuality.com>, ietf-http-wg@w3.org
Message-Id: <DBA99BE8-329E-40D8-AC3B-5912ED3E0358@mnot.net>
To: Willy Tarreau <w@1wt.eu>

On 13/06/2012, at 3:51 PM, Willy Tarreau wrote:

> Hi Roy,
> On Tue, Jun 12, 2012 at 10:35:12PM -0700, Roy T. Fielding wrote:
>> On Jun 12, 2012, at 9:34 AM, Tim Bray wrote:
>>> Aaaaaaaand, it turns out MNot was right; I checked with an expert, and 451 is heavily used for ?redirect? in the Msft ecosystem, notably including HotMail?s hundreds of millions of users.  Consider it ?4xx? (which I would still argue for as opposed to 5xx).  -T
>> 4xx indicates an error by the user or user agent.  I don't see
>> any reason (aside from literary) that would justify using a 4xx
>> code for this.  5xx is typically used for non-authoritative
>> responses or server-imposed limitations -- a status that might
>> be different if the user agent chose a different intermediary
>> or tried again later.  Hence, 5xx makes more sense here.
> I don't completely agree here : for me, 5xx means that the error is not
> the client's fault and that it might randomly work if the client tries
> again, which is why network errors fall into this category, as opposed
> to the 4xx error by the user/user agent as you explained (and which I
> agree with).

This is completely off base.

If the client retries the request, it might indeed work again -- depending on what network path they're using, etc. That's why all of the intermediation-focused errors are in 5xx.

> If a client requests a resource that is forbidden for legal
> reasons, we're typically in the situation where the user caused the error
> to happen by requesting this resource, and where if he tries again he will
> get the same error again. Much like 403 or 404. 5xx would be appropriate
> if the server was not able to verify in a database or referential whether
> the resource is legally permitted or not.

Sorry, what? 

Mark Nottingham   http://www.mnot.net/
Received on Wednesday, 13 June 2012 10:21:45 UTC

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