- From: Roy T. Fielding <fielding@kiwi.ICS.UCI.EDU>
- Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 02:53:44 -0800
- To: Jeffrey Mogul <mogul@pa.dec.com>
- Cc: http-wg%cuckoo.hpl.hp.com@hplb.hpl.hp.com
> Although our previous (and quite different) proposal, at the end of July, > resulted in some discussion, this one has raised no comments on the > mailing list (although we have received a few private comments). > > Since we have not seen any criticism of our latest proposal, we would > like to interpret this as lack of criticism rather than lack of > interest, because we already have evidence that several large customers > are eager to deploy implementations of our proposal. My comments on your last proposal still apply to this one. From <http://www.ics.uci.edu/pub/ietf/http/hypermail/1996q3/0396.html> ================== ["coop" is now called "Meter"] that is not an appropriate use of Connection. For one thing, assuming that all intermediaries have caches (and thus would assign any meaning to being cooperative) is wrong. For another, it doesn't take advantage of the extensibility mechanism inherent in cache-control. Instead of all the coop negotiation, an origin server should decide whether being cooperative is required or optional. If it is required, then send Cache-control: proxy-revalidate, coop with coop (or something similar) being defined as a modifier on proxy-revalidate such that caches which obey the coop directive (whatever that may imply) may ignore the proxy-revalidate. If cooperation is considered optional, then just send Cache-control: coop The advantage here is that you don't need to mess with Connection and the directives will propagate to all recipients instead of just the nearest neighbor on the response chain. ================== When I said the above, I should have been more clear in my objection. Connection cannot be used as a means for two caches to communicate because not all proxies have caches. Requiring that a non-cache proxy fiddle with Cache-Control on the basis of what they must drop from Connection is just not appropriate. Use a design which doesn't fail through such proxies. In addition, the current design, if implemented, forces the proxy to add Connection: Meter Meter: will-report-and-limit (or "wont-report" or "wont-limit") to every single request forwarded, regardless of the likelihood that the origin server and the requested resource happen to use hit-metering. In other words, "good citizen" proxies are forced to do extra work on every request just to support a few "bad citizen" service providers who are too lazy to perform statistical sampling. Any reasonable estimate of the percentage of resources requiring "hit-metering", versus those that don't, will show that the amount of extra bytes sent by the proxy to support those few lazy servers will far exceed the amount of extra bytes that would be sent by cache-busting. As such, the proposal is actually less efficient for the Internet than doing nothing at all. > P.S.: We should also note that Larry Masinter has suggested that > this should be submitted for "Experimental" rather than "Proposed > Standard" status. Our reading of RFC2026, however, convinces > us that "Experimental" would be inappropriate. Larry may still > disagree. Again, my previous comments still apply to this proposal. ================== I still don't believe that such count-forwarding is appropriate for a proposed standard (experimental is okay), since I don't think that people disable caching just to record hit-counts (which are already known not to be an accurate measure of readers). Most people disable caching by accident, and those that do it on purpose are normally looking for Referer and IP/hostname (more than just a request count). ================== I do not believe that the proposal is valuable to the Internet community. In fact, I believe it will cause more harm than good if implemented, and would strongly recommend not implementing it as it currently stands. On that basis, I oppose it going forward as a Proposed Standard. ...Roy T. Fielding Department of Information & Computer Science (fielding@ics.uci.edu) University of California, Irvine, CA 92697-3425 fax:+1(714)824-4056 http://www.ics.uci.edu/~fielding/
Received on Wednesday, 20 November 1996 03:07:32 UTC