W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > xml-dist-app@w3.org > February 2003

Re: What is a SOAP Message

From: Mark Baker <distobj@acm.org>
Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 10:31:29 -0500
To: fielding@apache.org
Cc: xml-dist-app@w3.org, David Orchard <dorchard@bea.com>
Message-ID: <20030213103129.U8837@www.markbaker.ca>

Hi Roy,

Dave and I (and others) have been going back and forth on what
constitutes a representation, and what doesn't, without any agreement
being reached.  We'd appreciate your help in working this out.

I'll leave some of the context here for you to digest.

Thanks.

MB

On Wed, Feb 12, 2003 at 09:10:11PM -0800, David Orchard wrote:
> There is a representation being sent in the "non-RESTful" request.  It's a
> representation of a resource at the sending side.  There is ALWAYS a
> representation when an HTTP POST or PUT is sent.
> 
> If you post a "3" to a URI, that "3" is a representation of something at the
> sender.  add(3) is a representation as well.  It's probably of a different
> resource than the "3".  Putting the "add" inside the representation makes it
> more difficult for a firewall to figure out what the verb is, but it's no
> less a representation.  Even in CPUs, the "verbs" are actually data.  By
> your analogy, CPUs have "data" and "verbs".  In reality, CPUs just have
> "data".  But they know that some of that data is to be interpreted as a
> verb.  Point being, there's just bits.  And representations don't
> differentiate between verb bits and noun bits.
> 
> Your view of representations is more limited than Roy's is.  I know you
> don't believe me, but I spent some time talking with Roy about this very
> specific scenario.  We could include him in discussions if you want.
> Actually, that might be a good idea as I'm certainly not an acknowledged
> "REST" expert.
> 
> Cheers,
> Dave
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Mark Baker [mailto:distobj@acm.org]
> > Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2003 6:20 PM
> > To: David Orchard
> > Cc: xml-dist-app@w3.org
> > Subject: Re: What is a SOAP Message
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Feb 12, 2003 at 02:00:02PM -0800, David Orchard wrote:
> > > Interesting.  I think we might have a disagreement about
> > the scope of
> > > representations.  I assert that in ALL cases of messages
> > using the HTTP
> > > binding, a representation is transferred.  Not just for the
> > WebMethod
> > > feature wrt SOAP.  In the case of a "non-RESTful" SOAP
> > usage, such as the
> > > classic getStockQuote inside a POST, there is still a
> > representation being
> > > transferred.
> >
> > There is on the response, but not on the request, because the request
> > body is a message, not a representation.
> >
> > Ok, one last try. 8-)
> >
> > "3" is a representation.  If I POST it to some URI, it is a
> > request for
> > that identified resource to accept the number three for processing.
> > That's all.  A successful response means it was accepted and
> > processed.
> >
> > "add(3)" is a message.  If I POST it to some URI, it is a request for
> > the number 3 to be added to whatever value is already there.  A
> > successful response means the number was added.
> >
> > I don't think we need to agree on the implications of this difference,
> > in order to agree that there is a difference.
> >
> > MB
> > --
> > Mark Baker.   Ottawa, Ontario, CANADA.        http://www.markbaker.ca
> > Web architecture consulting, technical reports, evaluation & analysis
> >

-- 
Mark Baker.   Ottawa, Ontario, CANADA.        http://www.markbaker.ca
Web architecture consulting, technical reports, evaluation & analysis
Received on Thursday, 13 February 2003 10:28:56 GMT

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.2.0+W3C-0.50 : Monday, 7 December 2009 10:59:13 GMT