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Re: XML and encoding (was Re: summary table of WWW9 agenda propos als)

From: Eric Prud'hommeaux <eric@w3.org>
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 17:16:54 -0400
To: Sami Khoury <sami@whatuwant.net>
Cc: "'bhunt@adobe.com'" <bhunt@adobe.com>, "'xml-dist-app@w3.org'" <xml-dist-app@w3.org>
Message-ID: <20000420171654.G27982@w3.org>
On Thu, Apr 20, 2000 at 01:49:45PM -0700, Sami Khoury wrote:
> Thanks, Eric.
> 
> I've cc'd the list on this go-round as we're all fine with taking this
> exchange public.
> 
> To summarize what is quoted below, the information on ICE listed in Eric's
> protocol comparison's table was a bit dated, so Bruce mailed with updates,
> which are below.  Notably, ICE is in fact deployed and the spec has actively
> matured to a 1.1 version due out shortly.
> 
> An open-source reference implementation written in java is also on the way
> (again, real soon now).
> 
> Eric, one question you raise below, about a protocol for serializing
> arbitrary data structures and then performing an arbitrary function on them,
> I am not clear on.  Could you restate this?

Sure - It's down around line 135. I'm leaving the rest of the
conversation intact. Sorry about the amount of included text.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Eric Prud'hommeaux [mailto:eric@w3.org]
> Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2000 11:12 PM
> To: Sami Khoury
> Cc: 'bhunt@adobe.com'
> Subject: Re: XML and encoding (was Re: summary table of WWW9 agenda
> propos als)
> 
> 
> I'd like to discuss this on xml-dist-app. Feel free to quote anything
> I said on the list. I didn't send this reply to the list as I don't
> want to publicize a conversation without mutual consent.
> 
> On Tue, Apr 18, 2000 at 11:21:20AM -0700, Sami Khoury wrote:
> > hi Eric-
> > 
> > I noticed that the protocol matrix has not been changed to indicate the
> > deployed status of ICE.  I have attached the message the my colleague on
> the
> > ICE Authoring Group, Bruce Hunt, sent to you to clear up many of the
> > particulars of ICE in your table.
> > 
> > Questions/comments appreciated.
> 
> Content-Description: [ice-ag] ICE - Protocol Update.
> > Message-ID: <38ECBBCE.66F99557@adobe.com>
> > From: "V. Bruce Hunt" <bhunt@adobe.com>
> > Reply-To: ice-ag@egroups.com
> > To: eric@w3.org, ice-ag@egroups.com
> > Subject: [ice-ag] ICE - Protocol Update. 
> > Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 09:31:10 -0700 
> > MIME-Version: 1.0
> > X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21)
> > List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ice-ag-unsubscribe@egroups.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain;
> > 	charset="iso-8859-1"
> > 
> > I would like to give you an update on ICE for your table.
> > 
> > ICE has been implemented by at least 4 vendors and it is deployed in
> > multiple sites.  An open source reference version of ICE is 
> > under development by the ICE-AG with sponsorship from Adobe.
> 
> updated
> 
> If you give me a URL, I'll link it from the "deployed" work in the ICE
> row.
> 
> > Under your facets, ICE has the following facets:
> > 
> > serialization - core capability.
> > 
> > extensibility - ICE 1.0 has DTD extensibility defined.  ICE 1.1 defines
> >                 extension negotiation.
> > 
> > skinnyness - ICE 1.0 and later permits a trivial implementation of a 
> >              subscriber, syndicator and parameter negotiation.
> > 
> > protocol - core capability
> > 
> > interface discovery - core capability.  ICE uses parameter negotiation to
> >              enhance this process.
> > 
> > transactions (ACIDity).  ICE carefully defines requests and responses so that
> >              recovery and a known state is always possible on both sides; 
> >              regardless of error condition or response.  Further, ICE
> >              provides collection management that recovers the state of
> >              a collection for any subscriber and brings the collection
> >              up to the current state.  
> >  remote procedure.  ICE 1.1 provides agent defined parameters on a per subscription
> >               basis or on a per relationship basis; including the ability for
> >              one party to direct the invocation of an identified procedure
> >              by the other.
> > 
> > business process.  ICE 1.1 supports almost any variant on content delivery work flow;
> >              It provides negotiated delivery policies.  ICE supports content
> >              delivery on both a replacement basis or a cumulative basis or
> >              any variation in between.  ICE supports content use requirements
> >              and permits those and any other parameters to be negotiated.
> >              ICE supports direct delivery; encrypted delivery; and referenced,
> >              access and time policy controlled delivery.  This means that ICE
> >              can manage the delivery of real-time high-bandwidth media and
> >              control access to it.
> > 
> > security.  ICE 1.1 permits packaged content to be in any form, including encryption.
> >            ICE provides multiple types of access control for referenced media and
> >            it is designed to be run under SSL.
> > 
> > routing.     ICE 1.0 and later provide support for payload redirect on both a 
> >              permanent and temporary basis.
> 
> One problem with discussing ICE in this context is that, as far as I
> understood from a couple hours on the spec, it's not a protocol for
> serializing arbitrary data structures and performing an arbitrary
> function on them.

I may be mistaken here, but isn't ICE a protocol for negotiating the
transport of packaged data between a syndicate and a subscriber? A
general prob we are solve here involves the serializing of arbitrary
data to ship to an agent which then uses the protocol to deserialize
the data and dispatch to some RPC handler.

The problem with saying that ICE has something like interface
discovery is that it doesn't make it available to the sending and
recieving applications. That is, if I create a tax preparer server,
some developer wouldn't use ICE to query the interface to my server
and create a VB object to talk to it.

-- 
-eric

(eric@w3.org)
Received on Thursday, 20 April 2000 17:17:00 GMT

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