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RE: XML and encoding (was Re: summary table of WWW9 agenda propos als)

From: Sami Khoury <sami@whatuwant.net>
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 13:49:45 -0700
Message-ID: <F0CBA28A8CE1D311B64300508BC2162201BEAC@SARUMAN>
To: "'Eric Prud'hommeaux'" <eric@w3.org>
Cc: "'bhunt@adobe.com'" <bhunt@adobe.com>, "'xml-dist-app@w3.org'" <xml-dist-app@w3.org>
Thanks, Eric.

I've cc'd the list on this go-round as we're all fine with taking this
exchange public.

To summarize what is quoted below, the information on ICE listed in Eric's
protocol comparison's table was a bit dated, so Bruce mailed with updates,
which are below.  Notably, ICE is in fact deployed and the spec has actively
matured to a 1.1 version due out shortly.

An open-source reference implementation written in java is also on the way
(again, real soon now).

Eric, one question you raise below, about a protocol for serializing
arbitrary data structures and then performing an arbitrary function on them,
I am not clear on.  Could you restate this?

	Sami

-----Original Message-----
From: Eric Prud'hommeaux [mailto:eric@w3.org]
Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2000 11:12 PM
To: Sami Khoury
Cc: 'bhunt@adobe.com'
Subject: Re: XML and encoding (was Re: summary table of WWW9 agenda
propos als)


I'd like to discuss this on xml-dist-app. Feel free to quote anything
I said on the list. I didn't send this reply to the list as I don't
want to publicize a conversation without mutual consent.

On Tue, Apr 18, 2000 at 11:21:20AM -0700, Sami Khoury wrote:
> hi Eric-
> 
> I noticed that the protocol matrix has not been changed to indicate the
> deployed status of ICE.  I have attached the message the my colleague on
the
> ICE Authoring Group, Bruce Hunt, sent to you to clear up many of the
> particulars of ICE in your table.
> 
> Questions/comments appreciated.

Content-Description: [ice-ag] ICE - Protocol Update.
> Message-ID: <38ECBBCE.66F99557@adobe.com>
> From: "V. Bruce Hunt" <bhunt@adobe.com>
> Reply-To: ice-ag@egroups.com
> To: eric@w3.org, ice-ag@egroups.com
> Subject: [ice-ag] ICE - Protocol Update. 
> Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 09:31:10 -0700 
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21)
> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ice-ag-unsubscribe@egroups.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;
> 	charset="iso-8859-1"
> 
> I would like to give you an update on ICE for your table.
> 
> ICE has been implemented by at least 4 vendors and it is deployed in
> multiple sites.  An open source reference version of ICE is 
> under development by the ICE-AG with sponsorship from Adobe.

updated

If you give me a URL, I'll link it from the "deployed" work in the ICE
row.

> Under your facets, ICE has the following facets:
> 
> serialization - core capability.
> 
> extensibility - ICE 1.0 has DTD extensibility defined.  ICE 1.1 defines
>                 extension negotiation.
> 
> skinnyness - ICE 1.0 and later permits a trivial implementation of a 
>              subscriber, syndicator and parameter negotiation.
> 
> protocol - core capability
> 
> interface discovery - core capability.  ICE uses parameter negotiation
> to
>              enhance this process.
> 
> transactions (ACIDity).  ICE carefully defines requests and responses so
> that
>              recovery and a known state is always possible on both
> sides; 
>              regardless of error condition or response.  Further, ICE
>              provides collection management that recovers the state of
>              a collection for any subscriber and brings the collection
>              up to the current state.  
> 
> remote procedure.  ICE 1.1 provides agent defined parameters on a per
> subscription
>               basis or on a per relationship basis; including the
> ability for
>              one party to direct the invocation of an identified
> procedure
>              by the other.
> 
> business process.  ICE 1.1 supports almost any variant on content
> delivery work flow;
>              It provides negotiated delivery policies.  ICE supports
> content
>              delivery on both a replacement basis or a cumulative basis
> or
>              any variation in between.  ICE supports content use
> requirements
>              and permits those and any other parameters to be
> negotiated.
>              ICE supports direct delivery; encrypted delivery; and
> referenced,
>              access and time policy controlled delivery.  This means
> that ICE
>              can manage the delivery of real-time high-bandwidth media
> and
>              control access to it.
> 
> security.  ICE 1.1 permits packaged content to be in any form, including
> encryption.
>            ICE provides multiple types of access control for referenced
> media and
>            it is designed to be run under SSL.
> 
> routing.     ICE 1.0 and later provide support for payload redirect on
> both a 
>              permanent and temporary basis.

One problem with discussing ICE in this context is that, as far as I
understood from a couple hours on the spec, it's not a protocol for
serializing arbitrary data structures and performing an arbitrary
function on them.

> ICE is designed to be operated over any of a number of reliable
> transport protocols.  It works
> well with HTTP and POP3.

I'd like to play with features like this in LOTP. Any lessons learned
would be greatly appreciated.

> One of the interesting new features of ICE 1.1 is arbitrary parameter
> negotiation.  This
> facility permits a Syndicator and Subscriber to manage a set of
> operational parameters and
> automatically negotiate optimal values between the parties.  This allows
> ICE implementations
> to automatically alter the delivery of content around busy times for a
> server.  The 
> negotiation mechansism applies to any agreed upon set of parameters
> between a syndicator
> and subscriber.  The negotiation mechanism has been extended to
> negotiate ICE extensions
> both at the subscription level and at the protocol level.

Again, any lessons we can learn from you...

-- 
-eric

(eric@w3.org)
Received on Thursday, 20 April 2000 16:50:47 GMT

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