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RE: [SPAM] Minutes, 1 February 2007 WS Description WG telcon

From: Jonathan Marsh <jonathan@wso2.com>
Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2007 13:02:57 -0800
To: "'Youenn Fablet'" <youenn.fablet@crf.canon.fr>
Cc: "'WS-Description WG'" <www-ws-desc@w3.org>
Message-ID: <09d501c74969$04e15b20$3501a8c0@DELLICIOUS>

With that clarification to 2, it makes much more sense to me.  I think I
could live with it now.

Jonathan Marsh - http://www.wso2.com - http://auburnmarshes.spaces.live.com
 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Youenn Fablet [mailto:youenn.fablet@crf.canon.fr]
> Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 5:35 AM
> To: Jonathan Marsh
> Cc: 'WS-Description WG'
> Subject: Re: [SPAM] Minutes, 1 February 2007 WS Description WG telcon
> 
> FWIW, related to CR117 my personal preference would go to (see agenda):
>     1, 5, 2, 3
> I am especially in favor of option 1 if there is no need for LC.
> 
> Also a correction on the option 2:
>     - agenda says : cited parameters are raw, uncited are encoded
>     - what I meant : path parameters are raw, query parameters are encoded
> When you do not want ambiguity, you just have to use query parameters,
> explicitly or implicitly.
> Regards,
>     Youenn
> 
> Jonathan Marsh wrote:
> >
> > Enclosed.
> >
> >
> >
> > **Jonathan Marsh** - http://www.wso2.com -
> > http://auburnmarshes.spaces.live.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > W3C <http://www.w3.org/>
> >
> >
> >   WS Description WG telcon
> >
> >
> >     1 Feb 2007
> >
> > See also: IRC log <http://www.w3.org/2007/02/01-ws-desc-irc>
> >
> >
> >     Attendees
> >
> > Present
> >     Charlton Baretto, Adobe Systems
> >     Allen Brookes, Rogue Wave Software
> >     Roberto Chinnici, Sun Microsystems
> >     Jacek Kopecky, DERI Innsbruck at the Leopold-Franzens-Universitšt
> >     Innsbruck, Austria
> >     Philippe Le Hegaret, W3C
> >     Jonathan Marsh, Co-chair/WSO2
> >     Monica Martin, Sun Microsystems
> >     Jean-Jacques Moreau, Canon
> >     Gilbert Pilz, BEA Systems
> >     Arthur Ryman, IBM
> >     Asir Vedamuthu, Microsoft
> > Regrets
> >     Youenn Fablet, Canon
> >     Tony Rogers, Co-chair/Computer Associates
> > Chair
> >     Jonathan
> > Scribe
> >     scribe-jjm
> >
> >
> >     Contents
> >
> >     * Topics <#agenda>
> >          1. Minutes/Actions <#item01>
> >          2. One-Way SOAP <#item02>
> >          3. WSDL 1.1 identifiers <#item03>
> >          4. Issue 145 (cont'd) <#item04>
> >          5. Issue 117 <#item05>
> >          6. Issue 143 <#item06>
> >          7. Issue 135 <#item07>
> >          8. Issue 144 <#item08>
> >          9. Issue 146 <#item09>
> >     * Summary of Action Items <#ActionSummary>
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > <plh> Namespace qualified elements tend to produce messages whose
> > interpretation is less ambiguous than those with unqualified elements.
> > The use of unqualified elements is therefore discouraged.
> >
> >
> >       Minutes/Actions
> >
> > Minutes approved
> >
> > Review of Action items [.1].
> >
> > [Interop]
> > ?         2006-11-30: [interop] John Kaputin to create a test case
> >                       with "required=false".
> > ?         2006-12-14: [interop] Jonathan to fix transferCodings -
> >                       add control group
> >
> > [WG]
> > ?         2006-09-21: Jonathan to check periodically that SPARQL has
> >                       added schemaLocation.
> > ?         2006-12-14: plh to come up with a more detailed proposal for
> >                       CR112 if possible
> > ?         2007-01-04: Paul to report back on which test cases in the
> >                       WSDL test suite fail the basic patterns, with
> >                       suggestions on how to address the issues.
> > ?         2007-01-11: Jean-Jacques to provide more analysis on how
> >                       difficult it would be deal with a Policy that
> >                       only contains an MTOM policy assertion
> > DONE [.3] 2007-01-25: Jonathan to forward comments to the author of
> >                       the MTOM charter.
> > DONE [.4] 2007-01-25: Jean-Jacques to develop more concrete suggestions
> >                       for expansion of the charter for the XML-P group.
> > DONE [.5] 2007-01-25: Roberto to suggest more concrete wording for the
> >                       spec for CR145.
> >
> > Current Editorial Action Items
> >
> > Note: Editorial AIs associated with LC issues recorded at [.2].
> >
> > [.1] http://www.w3.org/2002/ws/desc/#actions
> > [.2] http://www.w3.org/2002/ws/desc/5/cr-issues/actions_owner.html
> > [.3] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-ws-cg/2007Jan/0015.html
> > [.4] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-ws-desc/2007Jan/0015.html
> > [.5] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2007Jan/0201.html
> >
> >
> >       One-Way SOAP
> >
> > Jonathan: JJ, do you prefer to send your comments yourself or through
> > the WG?
> >
> > JJ: the latter sounds good to me.
> >
> > Jonathan: ok, sent.
> >
> >
> >       WSDL 1.1 identifiers
> >
> > Jonathan: any comments?
> >
> > Arthur: I reviewed an earlier draft?
> >
> > Jonathan: do you want to see if any was broken since you last looked?
> >
> > <charlton> WSDL 1.1 element identifiers document published by
> > WS-Policy WG:http://www.w3.org/TR/wsdl11elementidentifiers/
> >
> > *ACTION:* Arthur to review the WSDL 1.1 identifier spec [recorded in
> > http://www.w3.org/2007/02/01-ws-desc-minutes.html#action01]
> >
> >
> >       Issue 145 (cont'd)
> >
> > Jonathan: we were about to limit the scope last week but wanted
> > Arthur's position
> > ... also, I've proposed an amendment
> >
> > Roberto: I like it
> > ... would prefer that the namespace be explicitely mentionned
> >
> > Arthur: is it clear enough for you to implement?
> >
> > Jonathan: can you not confirm that yourself?
> > ... my stylesheet implement has limits as to its exploring depth
> >
> > Arthur: in the type section, if see a schema or xs:import, those
> > components get included
> >
> > Roberto: true for WSDL include
> >
> > Arthur: not WSDL import (namespace issue)?
> > ... the only things we exclude are xs:import in an included schema
> > ... edge case: we allowed top level xs schema with no top level
> > namespace (issue 45)
> > ... so, we would include those components
> > ... they would all endup in the global no-namespace schema
> > ... so non ambiguous
> >
> > Roberto: I agree
> >
> > PROPOSAL: Roberto's proposal amended by Jonathan email from 31/1/7,
> > plus some editorial license
> >
> > *RESOLUTION: Roberto's proposal amended by Jonathan email from 31/1/7,
> > plus some editorial license*
> >
> >
> >       Issue 117
> >
> > Jonathan: a bit controversial last week
> >
> > Jacek: even if we use the flag, it would not go to LC
> >
> > Jonathan: I would be prepared to argue that; don't want to go back to LC
> >
> > Philippe: it is a change, no doubt, by the letter would have to go to
> > LC, but negative reactions are likely to be low, so would support this
> > option in front of the director
> >
> > JJ: would prefer to hold resolution until Youenn is back next week
> >
> > Jonathan: ok, but would like to continue discussion a little bit so we
> > weed out the options
> > ... don't like options which don't allow people to %-escape things if
> > they wish
> > ... what are people's preferences?
> >
> > Jacek: 3 options: 1. no encoding; 2. full encoding; 3. partial encoding
> > ... 1. no option for Jonathan
> > ... 2. not an option for some
> > ... so 3. looks like the easy option
> >
> > Jonathan: citing a parameter allows it's name to be changed; this is
> > orthogonal to escaping
> > ... often I would like to be able to encode
> > ... option 1 (as per the agenda, not Jacek's above) sounds better to me
> >
> > <Roberto> +1 for option 1 in the agenda
> >
> > STRAWMAN: option 1 (from the agenda)
> >
> > Jonathan: I suggested a syntax; but the default should be encoded; so
> > # before a token to indicate raw instead
> > ... amenable to using a bracket instead
> > ... which character should be encoded? In my proposal for option 3,
> > very restricted. Maybe I should...
> >
> > <scribe> *ACTION:* Jonathan to provide an enhanced option 1 for issue
> > 117 by next week, using bits from the other proposals as indicated
> > above [recorded in
> > http://www.w3.org/2007/02/01-ws-desc-minutes.html#action02]
> >
> >
> >       Issue 143
> >
> > Philippe: should use Transfer-encoding instead of Content-encoding
> >
> > Jonathan: wonder if Dave Orchard thought about other uses than zip
> >
> > Philippe: Transfer-encoding is a section in the HTTP spec, so covers
> both
> >
> > Jonathan: should go to Transfer-coding header
> > ... close today by moving to Content-encoding; or leave it open whilst
> > getting feedback
> > ... would rather close this sooner since reason for many reds in tests
> > ... but a week is reasonnable
> >
> > Philippe: we could use identity instead
> >
> > Jonathan: JJ, you don't support gzip as I recall?
> >
> > JJ: correct
> >
> > Jacek: does the header have to be present, though? I suspect not
> >
> > <plh> [[ If the content-coding of an entity is not "identity", then the
> >
> > <plh> response MUST include a Content-Encoding entity-header
> >
> > <plh> (Section 14.11) that lists the non-identity content-coding(s)
> > used. ]]
> >
> > Jonathan: have to stick with gzip and accept some of our tests fail
> >
> >
> >       Issue 135
> >
> > Jonathan: proposal for a new feature, has to do with operation
> > dispatch, related to a former issue using http-location to dispatch
> > ... so, generic binding and HTTP bindings don't work well together
> > ... hence propose location-default property
> >
> > PROPOSAL: close with no action
> >
> > *RESOLUTION: as just proposed*
> >
> >
> >       Issue 144
> >
> > Jonathan: add {http location ignore uncited} parameter
> >
> > Arhtur: how many will we need to add?
> >
> > Jonathan: this one for now; there's a concrete proposal
> >
> > Arthur: ok
> >
> > *RESOLUTION: adopt the proposal in the my email*
> >
> >
> >       Issue 146
> >
> > Jonathan: {http location ignore uncited} and required schema data
> > ... required information may be dropped
> > ... proposal is that if uncited, should be nillable
> >
> > Arthur: don't quite like nillable
> >
> > Jonathan: would prefer optional; but if nillable can still operate
> >
> > <Jonathan>
> > http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2007Jan/0208.html
> >
> > Arthur: would be ok if using min/maxoccurs
> >
> > Jonathan: this is my amendment from this week
> >
> > Asir: nillable is for the content
> >
> > Arthur: here, if not being sent, but declared in schema as nillable,
> > proposal is to reinsert the element and get a value nil=true
> > ... is that equivalent to missing value for optional element?
> > ... let's say instead element required, but is not present and has a
> > default value
> >
> > Asir: the infoset gets augmented with the default value
> > ... it gets added when the element is present and doesn't have content
> >
> > Robertor: value can only be characters
> >
> > Jonathan: so add or has to have a default
> > ... property must be defined as nillable, or has a default value, or
> > has minoccurs=1
> >
> > Arthur: we should check default further in the schema spec
> > ... if element missing and has minoccurs=0, don't reconstitute
> > ... if minoccurs=1 and default value, reconstruct
> > ... would like a deterministic rule, needed for interop
> > ... should say what we get after reconstruction
> >
> > Jonathan: constraint: can mark both as nillable and have a default value
> >
> > Arthur: maybe in schema spec already ;-)
> >
> > Asir: from spec, if nillable, no other constraint
> >
> > Jacek: from different section: if nillable, and not here, it's nil. If
> > not nillable, and not there, default.
> >
> > <Roberto> karnaugh map
> >
> > Roberto: let's take this to the list
> >
> > ADJOURN
> >
> >
> >     Summary of Action Items
> >
> > *[NEW]* *ACTION:* Arthur to review the WSDL 1.1 identifier spec
> > [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/02/01-ws-desc-minutes.html#action01]
> > *[NEW]* *ACTION:* Jonathan to provide an enhanced option 1 for issue
> > 117 by next week, using bits from the other proposals as indicated
> > above [recorded in
> > http://www.w3.org/2007/02/01-ws-desc-minutes.html#action02]
> >
> > [End of minutes]
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Minutes formatted by David Booth's scribe.perl
> > <http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/%7Echeckout%7E/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm>
> > version 1.127 (CVS log <http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/>)
> > $Date: 2007/02/01 17:53:56 $
> >
Received on Monday, 5 February 2007 21:02:47 GMT

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