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Re: [SPAM] Minutes, 1 February 2007 WS Description WG telcon

From: Youenn Fablet <youenn.fablet@crf.canon.fr>
Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2007 14:34:31 +0100
To: Jonathan Marsh <jonathan@wso2.com>
Cc: "'WS-Description WG'" <www-ws-desc@w3.org>
Message-id: <45C33DE7.6020409@crf.canon.fr>

FWIW, related to CR117 my personal preference would go to (see agenda):
    1, 5, 2, 3
I am especially in favor of option 1 if there is no need for LC.

Also a correction on the option 2:
    - agenda says : cited parameters are raw, uncited are encoded
    - what I meant : path parameters are raw, query parameters are encoded
When you do not want ambiguity, you just have to use query parameters, 
explicitly or implicitly.
Regards,
    Youenn

Jonathan Marsh wrote:
>
> Enclosed.
>
>  
>
> **Jonathan Marsh** - http://www.wso2.com - 
> http://auburnmarshes.spaces.live.com
>
>  
>
>  
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> W3C <http://www.w3.org/>
>
>
>   WS Description WG telcon
>
>
>     1 Feb 2007
>
> See also: IRC log <http://www.w3.org/2007/02/01-ws-desc-irc>
>
>
>     Attendees
>
> Present
>     Charlton Baretto, Adobe Systems
>     Allen Brookes, Rogue Wave Software
>     Roberto Chinnici, Sun Microsystems
>     Jacek Kopecky, DERI Innsbruck at the Leopold-Franzens-Universitšt
>     Innsbruck, Austria
>     Philippe Le Hegaret, W3C
>     Jonathan Marsh, Co-chair/WSO2
>     Monica Martin, Sun Microsystems
>     Jean-Jacques Moreau, Canon
>     Gilbert Pilz, BEA Systems
>     Arthur Ryman, IBM
>     Asir Vedamuthu, Microsoft
> Regrets
>     Youenn Fablet, Canon
>     Tony Rogers, Co-chair/Computer Associates
> Chair
>     Jonathan
> Scribe
>     scribe-jjm
>
>
>     Contents
>
>     * Topics <#agenda>
>          1. Minutes/Actions <#item01>
>          2. One-Way SOAP <#item02>
>          3. WSDL 1.1 identifiers <#item03>
>          4. Issue 145 (cont'd) <#item04>
>          5. Issue 117 <#item05>
>          6. Issue 143 <#item06>
>          7. Issue 135 <#item07>
>          8. Issue 144 <#item08>
>          9. Issue 146 <#item09>
>     * Summary of Action Items <#ActionSummary>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> <plh> Namespace qualified elements tend to produce messages whose 
> interpretation is less ambiguous than those with unqualified elements. 
> The use of unqualified elements is therefore discouraged.
>
>
>       Minutes/Actions
>
> Minutes approved
>
> Review of Action items [.1].
>
> [Interop]
> ?         2006-11-30: [interop] John Kaputin to create a test case 
>                       with "required=false". 
> ?         2006-12-14: [interop] Jonathan to fix transferCodings - 
>                       add control group
>
> [WG]
> ?         2006-09-21: Jonathan to check periodically that SPARQL has 
>                       added schemaLocation.
> ?         2006-12-14: plh to come up with a more detailed proposal for 
>                       CR112 if possible
> ?         2007-01-04: Paul to report back on which test cases in the 
>                       WSDL test suite fail the basic patterns, with
>                       suggestions on how to address the issues.
> ?         2007-01-11: Jean-Jacques to provide more analysis on how 
>                       difficult it would be deal with a Policy that 
>                       only contains an MTOM policy assertion 
> DONE [.3] 2007-01-25: Jonathan to forward comments to the author of 
>                       the MTOM charter. 
> DONE [.4] 2007-01-25: Jean-Jacques to develop more concrete suggestions 
>                       for expansion of the charter for the XML-P group. 
> DONE [.5] 2007-01-25: Roberto to suggest more concrete wording for the 
>                       spec for CR145.
>
> Current Editorial Action Items
>
> Note: Editorial AIs associated with LC issues recorded at [.2].
>
> [.1] http://www.w3.org/2002/ws/desc/#actions
> [.2] http://www.w3.org/2002/ws/desc/5/cr-issues/actions_owner.html
> [.3] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-ws-cg/2007Jan/0015.html
> [.4] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-ws-desc/2007Jan/0015.html
> [.5] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2007Jan/0201.html
>
>
>       One-Way SOAP
>
> Jonathan: JJ, do you prefer to send your comments yourself or through 
> the WG?
>
> JJ: the latter sounds good to me.
>
> Jonathan: ok, sent.
>
>
>       WSDL 1.1 identifiers
>
> Jonathan: any comments?
>
> Arthur: I reviewed an earlier draft?
>
> Jonathan: do you want to see if any was broken since you last looked?
>
> <charlton> WSDL 1.1 element identifiers document published by 
> WS-Policy WG:http://www.w3.org/TR/wsdl11elementidentifiers/
>
> *ACTION:* Arthur to review the WSDL 1.1 identifier spec [recorded in 
> http://www.w3.org/2007/02/01-ws-desc-minutes.html#action01]
>
>
>       Issue 145 (cont'd)
>
> Jonathan: we were about to limit the scope last week but wanted 
> Arthur's position
> ... also, I've proposed an amendment
>
> Roberto: I like it
> ... would prefer that the namespace be explicitely mentionned
>
> Arthur: is it clear enough for you to implement?
>
> Jonathan: can you not confirm that yourself?
> ... my stylesheet implement has limits as to its exploring depth
>
> Arthur: in the type section, if see a schema or xs:import, those 
> components get included
>
> Roberto: true for WSDL include
>
> Arthur: not WSDL import (namespace issue)?
> ... the only things we exclude are xs:import in an included schema
> ... edge case: we allowed top level xs schema with no top level 
> namespace (issue 45)
> ... so, we would include those components
> ... they would all endup in the global no-namespace schema
> ... so non ambiguous
>
> Roberto: I agree
>
> PROPOSAL: Roberto's proposal amended by Jonathan email from 31/1/7, 
> plus some editorial license
>
> *RESOLUTION: Roberto's proposal amended by Jonathan email from 31/1/7, 
> plus some editorial license*
>
>
>       Issue 117
>
> Jonathan: a bit controversial last week
>
> Jacek: even if we use the flag, it would not go to LC
>
> Jonathan: I would be prepared to argue that; don't want to go back to LC
>
> Philippe: it is a change, no doubt, by the letter would have to go to 
> LC, but negative reactions are likely to be low, so would support this 
> option in front of the director
>
> JJ: would prefer to hold resolution until Youenn is back next week
>
> Jonathan: ok, but would like to continue discussion a little bit so we 
> weed out the options
> ... don't like options which don't allow people to %-escape things if 
> they wish
> ... what are people's preferences?
>
> Jacek: 3 options: 1. no encoding; 2. full encoding; 3. partial encoding
> ... 1. no option for Jonathan
> ... 2. not an option for some
> ... so 3. looks like the easy option
>
> Jonathan: citing a parameter allows it's name to be changed; this is 
> orthogonal to escaping
> ... often I would like to be able to encode
> ... option 1 (as per the agenda, not Jacek's above) sounds better to me
>
> <Roberto> +1 for option 1 in the agenda
>
> STRAWMAN: option 1 (from the agenda)
>
> Jonathan: I suggested a syntax; but the default should be encoded; so 
> # before a token to indicate raw instead
> ... amenable to using a bracket instead
> ... which character should be encoded? In my proposal for option 3, 
> very restricted. Maybe I should...
>
> <scribe> *ACTION:* Jonathan to provide an enhanced option 1 for issue 
> 117 by next week, using bits from the other proposals as indicated 
> above [recorded in 
> http://www.w3.org/2007/02/01-ws-desc-minutes.html#action02]
>
>
>       Issue 143
>
> Philippe: should use Transfer-encoding instead of Content-encoding
>
> Jonathan: wonder if Dave Orchard thought about other uses than zip
>
> Philippe: Transfer-encoding is a section in the HTTP spec, so covers both
>
> Jonathan: should go to Transfer-coding header
> ... close today by moving to Content-encoding; or leave it open whilst 
> getting feedback
> ... would rather close this sooner since reason for many reds in tests
> ... but a week is reasonnable
>
> Philippe: we could use identity instead
>
> Jonathan: JJ, you don't support gzip as I recall?
>
> JJ: correct
>
> Jacek: does the header have to be present, though? I suspect not
>
> <plh> [[ If the content-coding of an entity is not "identity", then the
>
> <plh> response MUST include a Content-Encoding entity-header
>
> <plh> (Section 14.11) that lists the non-identity content-coding(s) 
> used. ]]
>
> Jonathan: have to stick with gzip and accept some of our tests fail
>
>
>       Issue 135
>
> Jonathan: proposal for a new feature, has to do with operation 
> dispatch, related to a former issue using http-location to dispatch
> ... so, generic binding and HTTP bindings don't work well together
> ... hence propose location-default property
>
> PROPOSAL: close with no action
>
> *RESOLUTION: as just proposed*
>
>
>       Issue 144
>
> Jonathan: add {http location ignore uncited} parameter
>
> Arhtur: how many will we need to add?
>
> Jonathan: this one for now; there's a concrete proposal
>
> Arthur: ok
>
> *RESOLUTION: adopt the proposal in the my email*
>
>
>       Issue 146
>
> Jonathan: {http location ignore uncited} and required schema data
> ... required information may be dropped
> ... proposal is that if uncited, should be nillable
>
> Arthur: don't quite like nillable
>
> Jonathan: would prefer optional; but if nillable can still operate
>
> <Jonathan> 
> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2007Jan/0208.html
>
> Arthur: would be ok if using min/maxoccurs
>
> Jonathan: this is my amendment from this week
>
> Asir: nillable is for the content
>
> Arthur: here, if not being sent, but declared in schema as nillable, 
> proposal is to reinsert the element and get a value nil=true
> ... is that equivalent to missing value for optional element?
> ... let's say instead element required, but is not present and has a 
> default value
>
> Asir: the infoset gets augmented with the default value
> ... it gets added when the element is present and doesn't have content
>
> Robertor: value can only be characters
>
> Jonathan: so add or has to have a default
> ... property must be defined as nillable, or has a default value, or 
> has minoccurs=1
>
> Arthur: we should check default further in the schema spec
> ... if element missing and has minoccurs=0, don't reconstitute
> ... if minoccurs=1 and default value, reconstruct
> ... would like a deterministic rule, needed for interop
> ... should say what we get after reconstruction
>
> Jonathan: constraint: can mark both as nillable and have a default value
>
> Arthur: maybe in schema spec already ;-)
>
> Asir: from spec, if nillable, no other constraint
>
> Jacek: from different section: if nillable, and not here, it's nil. If 
> not nillable, and not there, default.
>
> <Roberto> karnaugh map
>
> Roberto: let's take this to the list
>
> ADJOURN
>
>
>     Summary of Action Items
>
> *[NEW]* *ACTION:* Arthur to review the WSDL 1.1 identifier spec 
> [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/02/01-ws-desc-minutes.html#action01]
> *[NEW]* *ACTION:* Jonathan to provide an enhanced option 1 for issue 
> 117 by next week, using bits from the other proposals as indicated 
> above [recorded in 
> http://www.w3.org/2007/02/01-ws-desc-minutes.html#action02]
>  
> [End of minutes]
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Minutes formatted by David Booth's scribe.perl 
> <http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/%7Echeckout%7E/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm> 
> version 1.127 (CVS log <http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/>)
> $Date: 2007/02/01 17:53:56 $
>
Received on Friday, 2 February 2007 13:34:58 GMT

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