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Minutes, 2 September 2004 WS Desc telcon

From: Jonathan Marsh <jmarsh@microsoft.com>
Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2004 10:31:30 -0700
Message-ID: <DF1BAFBC28DF694A823C9A8400E71EA204C5AB8B@RED-MSG-30.redmond.corp.microsoft.com>
To: <www-ws-desc@w3.org>

Minutes, Web Services Description Working Group
2 September 2004 telcon

Attendence:
 Erik Ackerman          Lexmark
 David Booth            W3C
 Allen Brookes          Rogue Wave Software
 Roberto Chinnici       Sun Microsystems
 Ugo Corda              SeeBeyond
 Glen Daniels           Sonic Software
 Paul Downey            British Telecommunications
 Tom Jordahl            Macromedia
 Jacek Kopecky          DERI
 Kevin Canyang Liu      SAP
 Jonathan Marsh         Chair (Microsoft)
 Dale Moberg            Cyclone Commerce
 Jean-Jacques Moreau    Canon
 David Orchard          BEA Systems
 Bijan Parsia           University of Maryland MIND Lab
 Arthur Ryman           IBM
 Sanjiva Weerawarana    IBM
 Prasad Yendluri        webMethods, Inc.

Regrets:
 Youenn Fablet          Canon
 Amelia Lewis           TIBCO
 William Vambenepe      Hewlett-Packard
 Asir Vedamuthu         webMethods
 Umit Yalcinalp         Oracle

--------------------------------------------------------------------
Agenda

1.  Assign scribe.  Lucky minute taker for this week is one of:
      Umit Yalcinalp, Dale Moberg, Jerry Thrasher, Bijan Parsia,
      Roberto Chinnici, Amy Lewis, Youenn Fablet, 
      Sanjiva Weerawarana, Arthur Ryman, Kevin Liu

Scribe: Dale

--------------------------------------------------------------------
2.  Approval of minutes:
  - July 29 [.1] (corrected)
  - Aug 2-4 FTF minutes [.2, .3, .4] and summary (corrected) [.5] 

[.1] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2004Aug/0058.html
[.2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2004Aug/0054.html
[.3] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2004Aug/0055.html
[.4] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2004Aug/0056.html
[.5] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2004Sep/0001.html

Minutes accepted
August f2f minutes accepted as corrected

--------------------------------------------------------------------
3.  Review of Action items [.1].

PENDING   2004-04-01: Marsh will get schema tf going.
DONE      2004-05-19: Editors to include in the primer an example 
                      that uses MTOM.  (Issue 72)
DONE      2004-08-02: Jonathan to followup on AB decisions with 
                      regards to test materials handling
PENDING   2004-08-02: Anish to write up some examples and add 
                      them to the spec
PENDING   2004-08-02: Editors to make a change to section of 2.2 
                      of the media type doc to reflect that 
                      the meaning (not just the value space) 
                      of the expected media type is the same 
                      as the accept header.
DONE [.3] 2004-08-02: Glen to inquire to XMLP about the rationale 
                      for closing 489.
PENDING   2004-08-02: Marsh to update Req doc to deprecate 
                      intermediaries requirement.
PENDING   2004-08-03: Glen to send a message about the mediaType 
                      annotation (attribute/appInfo) to 
                      soapbuilders.
PENDING   2004-08-04: Jonathan to check the policy with AB 
                      and team and perhaps set 
                      up a ML for testing.
PENDING   2004-08-04: Arthur and Jonathan to produce a mockup 
                      of Z in the spec for next FTF.

Arthur:   W3C namespace with dereferencable URL for Arthur Z work?
ACTION:   David Booth will check on w3c namespace policy for a stable 
          URL without cvs string
[pauld: a RDDL document?]
Arthur:   Display issues: fonts vs mathml vs images for special
characters
Arthur:   will have demo at f2f!

DONE [.2] 2004-08-04: Hugo to set up Sep f2f registration page.

[.1] http://www.w3.org/2002/ws/desc/#actions
[.2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-ws-desc/2004Aug/0010.html
[.3] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2004Aug/0031.html

---------------------------------------------------------------------
4.  Administrivia
  a. - September 14-16 (Toronto) registration [.1], logistics [.2]
       Registration closed 8/27 - only 10 registrants!?
     - November 9-11 (Sunnyvale, CA) registration [.3], logistics [.4]

[.1] http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/34041/WSD0409/
[.2] http://www.w3.org/2002/ws/desc/4/04-09-f2f.htm
[.3] http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/34041/WSD0411/
[.4] http://www.w3.org/2002/ws/desc/4/04-11-f2f.htm

F2F-- Arthur needs number for food, Sep 7 as final date.
DBooth:   Registration deadline is now Sept 7.
November 9-11 (Sunnyvale) see
http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/34041/WSD0411/

------------------------------------------------------------------
5.  New (non-LC) Issues.  Issues list [.1].
  - none

[.1]
http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/%7Echeckout%7E/2002/ws/desc/issues/wsd-issues.h
tml

------------------------------------------------------------------
6.  Last Call Issues [.1].  Comments list [.2]
  - (Issue LC1: Property requiredness)
  - Issue LC2: Define Part 3 component model types using wsdls:* types 
    (Asir, Part 3) [.3]
  - Issue LC3: {namespace name} property (Bijan, Part 1) [.4]
  - Issue LC4: Table of components/properties (Bijan, Part 1) [.5]
  - Issue LC5: QA Review on WSDL 2.0 Part 1, Editorial comments [.6]
  - Issue LC6: QA Review on WSDL 2.0 Part 1, Technical comments [.7]
  - Issue LC7: QA Review on WSDL 2.0 Part 1, intro and conformance 
    issues [.8]
  - Issue LC8: Permit URI References instead of URIs (DBooth, Part 1)
[.9]
  - Note: webMethod LC issues to be processed [.10]

[.1] http://www.w3.org/2002/ws/desc/4/lc-issues/
[.2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-desc-comments/
[.3] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2004Aug/0006.html
[.4] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2004Aug/0011.html
[.5] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2004Aug/0013.html
[.6]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-desc-comments/2004Aug/0000
.html
[.7]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-desc-comments/2004Aug/0001
.html
[.8]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-desc-comments/2004Aug/0002
.html
[.9]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-desc-comments/2004Aug/0021
.html
[.10]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-desc-comments/2004Aug/

New issues list described.

------------------------------------------------------------------
7.  Media Type Description [.1] Last Call status
  - Issue 198 resolution? (MarkN) [.2, .3]
  - To do:
    - complete all edits (note that AIs above are insufficient).
    - notify XMLP WG
    - prepare for Last Call

[.1]
http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/ws/desc/media-types/xml-media-t
ypes.html?content-type=text/html;%20charset=utf-8
[.2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2004Aug/0008.html
[.3] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2004Aug/0014.html

Umit nothing on agenda 7.


------------------------------------------------------------------
8.  Issue LC2: Define Part 3 component model types using wsdls:* types
    [.1]
  - Asir's proposal [.2]

[.1] http://www.w3.org/2002/ws/desc/4/lc-issues/#LC2
[.2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2004Aug/0006.html

Asir's proposal (LC2) for using types in part 3.
RESOLUTION: Resolve LC2 by accepting Asir's proposal.

------------------------------------------------------------------
9.  Issue LC3: {namespace name} property [.1]
  - Initial mail [.2]
  - Arthur's proposal [.3]
  - Umit's response [.4]

[.1] http://www.w3.org/2002/ws/desc/4/lc-issues/#LC3
[.2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2004Aug/0011.html
[.3] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2004Aug/0016.html
[.4] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2004Aug/0021.html

TOPIC: LC3 proposal remove the targetNamespace property and change the
name property to be a QName instead of an NCName for components:
  Intertace
  InterfaceFault
  InterfaceOperation
  Binding
  Service
Roberto:  Says our 2 parts conforms with schemas approach.
When referring, the two parts go together in the qname.
Arthur:   Properties are not always just simple things-- can be sets
[GlenD:   wouldn't it be nice if we just said interfaces were namespaces

          and operations/faults were ncnames, allowing each to be 
          referenced uniquely by a single QName?]
Arthur:   says we do not align stylistically with schema but is perhaps 
          closer to infoset
[GlenD:   I seem to recall there was a good reason for not doing that, 
          but I don't for the life of me remember it....]
Arthur:   notes discrepancy was in InterfaceFault/InterfaceOperation.
Roberto:  says that was corrected in LC
Issues:   consistency with schema, roll up parts into qname...
Section 2.18 uses targetNamespace.
Arthur:   Additional evidence for consistent convention.
[Arthur:  actually 2.18 uses namespaceName but that doesn't match the
spec] [Marsh:   Option 1: Fold {targetNamespace} into {name}, which
becomes 
                    an wsdls:QName.
          Oprion 2: Fix 2.18 to refer to {targetNamespace} and anywhere 
                    else we find {namespace name}
 Results: Option 1: 6, Option 2: 4]
 RESOLUTION: Resolve LC3 by adopting Arthur's proposal.


------------------------------------------------------------------
10. Issue LC4: Table of components/properties [.1]
  - Initial mail [.2]
  - Example [.3]

[.1] http://www.w3.org/2002/ws/desc/4/lc-issues/#LC4
[.2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2004Aug/0013.html
[.3] http://www.w3.org/TR/owl-ref/#appA

LC4 -- generate from xslt?]
Support voiced for adding table of components/properties
Additional testimonials for automatic generation of table
RESOLUTION: LC4 resolved in favor of automatic table

[dbooth: Scribe: Arthur]

------------------------------------------------------------------
11. Issue LC5: QA Review on WSDL 2.0 Part 1, Editorial comments [.1]
  - Initial mail [.2]
  - DBooth friendly amendment [.3]

[.1] http://www.w3.org/2002/ws/desc/4/lc-issues/#LC5
[.2]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-desc-comments/2004Aug/0000
.html
[.3]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-desc-comments/2004Aug/0017
.html


LC5 is split into several issues, lettered a, b, ..

Issue a: Document Conformance
They are asking for clarification.
DavidB:   Suggests a rewrite of XML 1.0 versus XML 1.1 issue.
Jonathan: EII conformance is well-defined since we are defined 
          using the Infoset.  We also state that the document must 
          validate wrt the schema.  
Jonathan: Propose:  "Since this spec is defined in terms of the infoset,

          it is not a requirement to support any particular
serialization 
          of the infoset."  A conformant processor could support binary 
          XML, or XML 1.0, or XML 1.1 or any combination of these or 
          others.
[Marsh:   "For instance, a conformant processor might only support XML
          1.0."]
Proposal is to rewrite section 8.1 as above.
RESOLUTION: Rewrite section 8.1 as above.  Jonathan will run the rewrite

          by the originator of LC5.
[pauld:   notes that our charter only says "The Working Group will
define 
          a description language expressed in XML." and doesn't specify 
          1.0 or 1.1 ..]

Issue LC5b:
Proposal: Remove discussion of validity from table in 1.2 and add .xsd 
          extension to all links to schemas.
RESOLUTION: Accept proposal to remove discussion of validity from table
in 
          1.2 and add .xsd extension to all links to schemas.]

Issue LC5c:
Proposal: We will state in a Test Assertion document what constraints
are 
          not covered by XSD.
RESOLUTION: We will provide this info in a TAD.

Meeting ends.
Received on Thursday, 2 September 2004 17:32:01 GMT

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