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Minutes 05 September 2002 WS Desc telcon

From: <thrasher@lexmark.com>
Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2002 16:50:59 -0400
Message-Id: <200209052054.QAA01697@interlock2.lexmark.com>
To: www-ws-desc@w3.org
Cc: jmarsh@microsoft.com




Web Services Description Working Group
2002-09-05 conference call minutes.

Attendance

Present:
 David Booth            W3C
 Allen Brookes          Rogue Wave Software
 Roberto Chinnici       Sun Microsystems
 Youenn Fablet          Canon
 Dietmar Gaertner       Software AG
 Martin Gudgin          Microsoft
 Tom Jordahl            Macromedia
 Philippe Le Hégaret    W3C
 Steve Lind             AT&T
 Kevin Canyang Liu      SAP
 Michael Mahan          Nokia
 Jonathan Marsh         Chair (Microsoft)
 Jeff Mischkinsky       Oracle
 Dale Moberg            Cyclone Commerce
 Jean-Jacques Moreau    Canon
 Arthur Ryman           IBM
 Waqar Sadiq            Electronic Data Systems
 Jeffrey Schlimmer      Microsoft
 Igor Sedukhin          Computer Associates
 Jerry Thrasher         Lexmark
 William Vambenepe      Hewlett-Packard
 Don Wright             Lexmark
 Joyce Yang             Oracle
 Prasad Yendluri        webMethods, Inc.
 Barbara Zengler        DaimlerChrysler Research and Technology

Regrets:
 Michael Champion       Software AG
 Glen Daniels           Macromedia
 Laurent De Teneuille   L'Echangeur
 Tim Finin              University of Maryland
 Steve Graham           Global Grid Forum
 Jacek Kopecky          Systinet
 Dan Kulp               IONA
 Amelia Lewis           TIBCO
 Michael Mealling       Verisign
 Don Mullen             Tibco
 Pallavi Malu           Intel
 Johan Pauhlsson        L'Echangeur
 Stefano Pogliani       Sun
 Jochen Ruetschlin      DaimlerChrysler Research and Technology
 Adi Sakala             IONA Technologies
 Daniel Schutzer        Citigroup
 Dave Solo              Citigroup
 Steve Tuecke           Global Grid Forum
 Sanjiva Weerawarana    IBM

Absent:
 Mike Ballantyne        Electronic Data Systems
 Mike Davoren           W. W. Grainger
 Sandeep Kumar          Cisco Systems
 Mike McHugh            W. W. Grainger
 William Stumbo         Xerox
 Sandra Swearingen      U.S. Department of Defense, U.S. Air Force

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Agenda:

1.  Assign scribe.
2.  Approval of minutes
3.  Review of Action items.
4.  SOAP 1.2 Last Call
5.  FTF Agenda
6.  New Issues
7.  SOAP TF Status
8.  Proposal: Hoisting SOAP binding attributes.
9.  Issue 51: Asymmetry between soap:body and soap:header
10. Issue 25: Interaction between W3C XML Schema and SOAP Data Model
11. Issue 5: EncodingStyle
    Issue 30: soap:body encodingStyle
12. Issue 18: Default for transport of <soap:binding>
13. HTTP Binding Issues (6a, 41)

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Agenda Items:

2. Approval of Minutes: (Done)

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3.  Review of Action items.
  2002-07-21: GlenD and JJM to write up proposal for handling
              MEPs with regard to Soap.

      Discussion:
      Proposal from GlenD sent to list.
      http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2002Sep/0004.html

      Resolution: (Done)
      New Action Item: (None)

 2002-07-21: GLEN & Sanjiva to write up the comment about MEPs
             & features to XMLP group

       Discussion: Time for input to XMLP Group has expired.
       Resolution: (Retired)
       New Action Item: (None)


 2002-07-21: GlenD to send DavidB details on hosting November
             F2F

       Discussion:
       Still waiting for details. Tom Jordahl agreed to assume action and
       send out details.

       Resolution: Pending, Re-assigned to Tom.

       New Action Item: (None)

  2002-07-21: JM to decide potential November F2F overlap on Wed
               Nov 13 with Architecture Group.

       Discussion: JM will address if/when necessary.

       Resolution: Retired

       New Action Item: (None)

  2002-07-21: Jeffrey & Gudge to flesh out a proposal for
               omitting operation from soap binding.

       Discussion:

       Resolution: PENDING, To be addressed at F2F.

       New Action Item: (None)

  2002-07-21: Don Mullen to write up an issue on transport
          attribute.

       Discussion: Group was unclear as to nature of the issue, wait till DonM
returns.

       Resolution: PENDING

       New Action Item: (None)

  2002-07-25: Glen write up an issue on transport URIs compliance
              with SOAP.

       Discussion: Issue recorded at:
       http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2002Jul/0132.html

       Resolution: (Done)

       New Action Item: (None)

  2002-07-25: Sanjiva and Gudge to work on combining the AM

       Discussion: None
       Resolution: (Done)
       http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/ws/desc/wsdl12/wsdl12.am.xml

       New Action Item: (None)


[4] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2002Jul/0132.html

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4.  SOAP 1.2 Last Call [9, 10, 11] call for review [12].  Awaiting text
from Glen and/or Sanjiva.  I think we missed the boat on this one.

[9] http://www.w3.org/TR/soap12-part0/
[10] http://www.w3.org/TR/soap12-part1/
[11] http://www.w3.org/TR/soap12-part2/
[12] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2002Jul/0001.html

             Discussion: No formal response prepared for feedback from the
             group.

             Resolution: Cancel

             New Action Item: (None)

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5.  FTF Agenda
Review, rearrange and augment first draft of the agenda [13].  Note that
the facilities don't accommodate overlapping groups, and we will thus
plan to end at noon on Wed.

[13] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-ws-desc/2002Sep/0004.html
(members only)

             Discussion:
             JohnM reviewed the current agenda draft for each day.
             Additional agenda items to be added from conference call discussion
if             necessary.

             Currently no plans to have a joint meeting with Architecture Group.

             Phone access to F2F meeting is being set up however details
currently
             not available. Currently planning capacity for 5 incoming calls.
             Please ping DBooth if you plan on dialing into the F2F (members
only).

             It was requested that an agenda item for an update from a WSI-Org
liaison
             be added.
             JeffM agreed to give the update. Briefly discussed possible subject
matter to           be covered.

             It was requested that an agenda item be added to discuss REST (what
is it,         does it impact the group).
             Noted that the Architecture Group has that on their agenda for the
F2F.
             It was suggested to ask the Architecture Grp to have the REST
             presentation/discussion on Wed. during F2F and to allowing
             ws-desc members to attend.

             Suggested discussing GlenD MEP proposal at the F2F in his absence.
Left off
             F2F agenda for now.

             Observers to attend the F2F:
             Erik Ackerman          Lexmark
             Hao He                 Thomson
             Paco Curbera           IBM
             Also Architecture Gp members are invited to Wed. PM F2F meeting
time.

             Updated Agenda will be sent out.


             New Action Item:    (None)

                                 JohnM to request Architecture GP give REST
pres.
                                 on Wed. at F2F.

                                 Please ping DBooth if you plan on dialing into
the F2F
                                 (members only).
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6.  New Issues
Philippe points out a couple of public comments on the public comments
list [13].  What process do we want to follow (pre-last-call) to respond
to these comments and make sure real ones appear on our issues list?

[14] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-desc-comments/

             Discussion:
             Public Comments have been/will be addressed by the Editors.
             Editors will get public email comments directly to expedite
turn-around.
             W3C Last Call procedure requires workgroup response to public
feedback.
             Editorial staff will act as filter for the group for addressing
technical
             comments that require design or discussion(i.e., not editorial).

             Resolution: (Done)

             New Action Item: (None)

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7.  SOAP TF Status?  Need more meetings?  Is [15] the output?
Conclusions so far:
  (1) We need to be able to express MEPs in the SOAP binding.
  (2) The ability to describe features and MEPs at the abstract level
      would be a good thing, but right now we don't know how much effort
      it would take to do so.
  (3) Feedback to XMLP WG: lack of something (such as a header) to
      express the MEP in use.  (Glen: perhaps we should say that, for
      each binding, there must be a way to identify unambiguously the
      MEP in use; of course, for bindings that support just one MEP
      that's a no-op).
  (4) Currently, there is no well-defined one-way MEP.

[15] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2002Jul/0034.html

This topic was deferred last time.  Is there anything more we need to do
here?


             Discussion:
             Discussed current status of the task force.
             Proposal from GlenD addresses (1).
             Other three items have been addressed as well.

             Resolution: Declared Success and SOAP TF closed down.

             New Action Item:    (none)

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8. Proposal: Hoisting SOAP binding attributes [16].  Roberto's amendment
at [17].

[16] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2002Jul/0058.html
[17] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2002Jul/0105.html

             Discussion:      It was decided that the group should discuss
                           the proposal at F2F.

             Resolution: PENDING

             New Action Item: (none) JohnM to add to F2F agenda.

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9. Issue 51: Asymmetry between soap:body and soap:header [18].  Thread
starts at [19] (Kevin), continues at [20] and [21].

[18] http://www.w3.org/2002/ws/desc/2/06/issues.html#x51
[19] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2002Jul/0048.html
[20] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2002Jul/0049.html
[21] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2002Jul/0081.html

             Discussion:
             Kevin gave summary of his proposal to address [18].  Concern
             was raised about how making the <soap:body> and <soap:header>
             completely symmetric would impact the way these elements are
             currently used and how they are processed.

             Resolution: No agreement, Discuss more at F2F.

             New Action Item: (none) JohnM to add to F2F agenda.

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10. Issue 25: Interaction between W3C XML Schema and SOAP Data Model
    Gudge's explains at [22], Roberto's options at [23].

[22] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2002Jun/0186.html
[23] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2002Jul/0071.html

             Discussion:
             MG gave an overview of Issue 25.
             It was mentioned (JeffM?) that the WSI group was also addressing
             this issue.
             The group briefly discussed how WSI is proposing to address the
issue,
             and the fact that it is basically option 3 from [23].
             JeffM will keep group informed on WSI's progress
             and when reviewable doc's are available. Input to the WSI group
             was invited.

             Resolution: Leave Open for now and monitor progress in WSI

             New Action Item: (None)

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11. Issue 5: EncodingStyle
    Issue 30: soap:body encodingStyle
    Dietmar's soaptf proposal for encoding and use attributes. [24]
    Arthur's recommendations. [25, 26]

[24] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-ws-desc/2002Jul/0016.html
[25] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2002Jun/0178.html
[26] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2002Jun/0178.html

             Discussion:
                    Arthur gave summary of his recommendations and it was noted
that the
                    recommendation addressed only part of the original set of
                    questions/issues from Dietmar's note and
                    that other issues contained in that note may need to be
                    discussed. John M, Dietmar, etc. discussed if the current
issues
                    could be closed and if there needed to be other new issues
                    raised as result of Deitmar's note.

             Resolution:
                    Issue 5 and 30 are resolved per [25] and [26]
recommendations.


             New Action Items:
                    Dietmar to extract remaining questions/issues from
                    [24] references in a new thread to be opened as a new issue.

                    JohnM to add to F2F agenda.

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12. Issue 18: Default for transport of <soap:binding> [27]. Jeffrey's
proposal at [28].

[27] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/ws/desc/issues/wsd-issues.html#x18
[28] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2002Jul/0122.html

            Discussion:
                    Summary of the issues was given and the recommendations.

                    Recollection (from Jeffrey?) was that GlenD may still have
                    concerns about closing Issue 28 without action.
                    The issue of bindings raised in 28 needs a lot of
                    further discussion and the group may need to revisit Issue
18 later if
                    addressing Issue 28 results in a complete binding overhaul.

            Resolution:
                    Issue 18 to be closed per [28] to make the transport
attribute
                    mandatory for the <soap:binding> element.

                    Issue 28 still open and may be discussed at F2F if time
permits.

             New Action Item: (None)

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13. HTTP Binding Issues (6a, 41)
    Jeffrey recommends no change [29].
    Sanjiva is mulling this over [30].

[29] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2002Jun/0102.html
[30] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2002Jul/0067.html

             Discussion: None. Still waiting for input from Sanjiva.
             Resolution: Pending
             New Action Item: (None)

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Call Adjourned


Summary of New Action Items:

1. Deitmar to extract remaining questions/issues from [24] and sent out
   in a new email thread to be opened as a new issue(s).

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Scribe: Jerry Thrasher
Received on Thursday, 5 September 2002 16:55:46 GMT

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