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Minutes of the 14 March teleconference

From: Hugo Haas <hugo@w3.org>
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 16:51:46 -0500
To: www-ws-arch@w3.org
Message-ID: <20020321215146.GE6751@jibboom.w3.org>
... are available at:

	http://www.w3.org/2002/ws/arch/2/03/14-minutes

Text dumps follows.

Regards,

Hugo

==========

                    Web Services Architecture Working Group
                          14-Mar-2002 meeting minutes

   [1]Working Group home page  [2]Meeting records

Attendance

   Apple
          [3]Mike Brumbelow

   AT&T
          [4]Ayse Dilber

   AT&T
          [5]Mark Jones

   ChevronTexaco
          [6]Roger Cutler

   Cisco Systems Inc
          [7]Sandeep Kumar

   Compaq
          [8]Yin-Leng Husband

   Compaq
          [9]Kevin Perkins

   CrossWeave, Inc.
          [10]Timothy Jones

   DaimlerChrysler Research and Technology
          [11]Mario Jeckle

   Digital Island
          [12]Joseph Hui

   DISA
          [13]Marcel Jemio

   EDS
          [14]Waqar Sadiq

   France Telecom
          [15]Shishir Garg

   Hewlett-Packard Company
          [16]Zulah Eckert

   IBM
          [17]Heather Kreger

   Intel Corporation
          [18]Sharad Garg

   Intel Corporation
          [19]Joel Munter

   IONA
          [20]Steve Vinoski

   Macromedia
          [21]Glen Daniels

   Macromedia
          [22]Tom Jordahl

   Microsoft Corporation
          [23]Allen Brown

   Microsoft Corporation
          [24]Henrik Nielsen

   MITRE Corporation
          [25]James Davenport

   Nokia
          [26]Michael Mahan

   Nortel Networks
          [27]Abbie Barbir

   Oracle Corporation
          [28]Jeff Mischkinsky

   Planetfred, Inc.
          [29]Mark Baker

   SeeBeyond Technology Corp
          [30]Alan Davies

   Software AG
          [31]Michael Champion

   Sterling Commerce(SBC)
          [32]Suresh Damodaran

   Sun Microsystems, Inc.
          [33]Doug Bunting

   Sun Microsystems, Inc.
          [34]Chris Ferris

   Sun Microsystems, Inc.
          [35]Mark Hapner

   Sybase, Inc.
          [36]Himagiri Mukkamala

   Systinet
          [37]Anne Thomas Manes

   The Boeing Company
          [38]Gerald Edgar

   The Thomson Corporation
          [39]Hao He

   W. W. Grainger, Inc.
          [40]Tom Carroll

   W3C
          [41]Hugo Haas

   webMethods, Inc.
          [42]Prasad Yendluri

Regrets

   BEA Systems
          [43]David Orchard

   Cisco Systems Inc
          [44]Krishna Sankar

   Documentum
          [45]Don Robertson

   Ericsson
          [46]Nilo Mitra

   Hewlett-Packard Company
          [47]Dorothea Beringer

   Intalio Inc
          [48]Bob Lojek

   IONA
          [49]Eric Newcomer

   SAP
          [50]Sinisa Zimek

   W. W. Grainger, Inc.
          [51]Daniel Austin

Absent

   Artesia Technologies
          [52]Dipto Chakravarty

   Carnegie Mellon University
          [53]Katia Sycara

   Computer Associates
          [54]Igor Sedukhin

   Contivo
          [55]Dave Hollander

   DaimlerChrysler Research and Technology
          [56]Hans-Peter Steiert

   EDS
          [57]Mike Ballantyne

   IBM
          [58]Jim Knutson

   Ipedo
          [59]Alex Cheng

   Ipedo
          [60]Srinivas Pandrangi

   MITRE Corporation
          [61]Paul Denning

   Software AG
          [62]Nigel Hutchison

   T-Nova Deutsche Telekom Innovationsgesellschaft
          [63]Jens Meinkoehn

   VeriSign, Inc.
          [64]Michael Mealling

   Waveset Technologies
          [65]Darran Rolls

   XQRL Inc.
          [66]Tom Bradford

   XQRL Inc.
          [67]Daniela Florescu

Agenda

   See [68]agenda posted by the Chair.

Detailed minutes

  1. Roll call, scribes for minutes/action items

  2. Agenda review, and AOB

  3. Approval of February 7 March telcon minutes

  4. Review of outstanding action items

     * 20020307 ACTION: DanielA: post issues list into CVS repository and
       post pointer to it; PENDING
     * 20020307 ACTION: Editors: include definition of web service and
       make it clear that it is an interim working definition and may
       change over time; PENDING
     * 20020307 ACTION: Editors: include glossary definitions; PENDING
     * 20020307 ACTION: DanielA: Post HTML of current requirements doc by
       EOB today; DONE
     * 20020307 ACTION: ChrisF: Annotate requirements document with names
       for each goal (see earlier action items); DONE

  5. Status

   -          F2F planning update remote telcon facilities will be
   provided, need to register regrets, 20 rooms at Sheraton in Milpitas
   (1 mile from cisco) reserved by Cisco - call Sheraton after 7pm and
   mention cisco rate $135 until 3/29 - sandeep will post details -
   shuttles to cisco available - joint dinner/lunch with wsd in planning
   - agenda out before next week's call

         - WS-CG report meeting this week - xml cg laision, daml laision
   [69]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-ws-cg/2002Mar/0014.html -
   possible next f2f in paris (wsd being hosted by canon), visa, nortel
   offers to host

   -          Editing team report

   Provide pre-f2f draft of req doc - snapshot before next week's call
   (i.e., 2 updates before f2f)


  6. Report from OMG Web Services Workshop


   tutorials, pres of technologies, biz coordination, security, lots of
   diff things, ontologies

   omg focus on uml mappings to w/s

   talked to global grid forum - try to get invited expert

   talked to oasis, daml-s


   Hugo will provide the WG with a report on the OMG ... conference

   he attended last week.


  7. Liaison with DAML Services initiative


   As per our charter[4] have invited an expert from the DAML Services

   initiative[5] to join our WG. She will serve as liaison with that
   activity.


   Katia?

  8. Review summary goals and objectives


   Some great email discussion has followed last week's con-call.

   Many thanks to the goal champion's for focusing the discussion.

   We'll spend a couple minutes on each with the respective champion

   presenting a summary of their summary email. We can hopefully

   come to consensus on the intent of each at least. Summary emails

   are cited for each. I'll determine the order that they'll

   be addressed so as to focus on getting as many completed as

   possible.


   DAG0001a Daniel Austin [6]

   DAG0002 Daniel Austin [7]

   DAG0003 Nilo Mitra [8] (regrets)

   DAG0004 Abbie Barbir [9]

   Raised questions on web components - are they well defined?

   Relationship w/ #11

   Don't know how to measure - need def. For web components

   Abbie will send alt. wording

   DAG0005 Mike Champion [10]

   Simplicity - not much disc

   Comment: point of simplicity is interoperability, use io as measure of
   simp - but how to do that?

   Sent out alt wording

   Henrik - simplicy reqs impossible to evaluate (xmlp), suggest think
   about kind of things to bring simp into design: modularity,
   composition

   Roger - keep small description, break out with numbered subparts
   rather than roll up into larger description

   Chris - need to clarify which goals apply to which actors

   Suresh - use simpliest language, no circular references

   mike - minimalism (smallest possible number of components) - burden of
   proof on those wanting more

   tomc - original goal at proper level of abstraction, numbered items
   are 1^st level csf

   chris - make sure arch is simple, not w/s Suresh - uncomfortable
   leaving goal as-is - merging arch and subject

   Chris will propose alt.

   DAG0006 Joe Hui [11]

   Comment - Goal is too broad

   Replacement suggested, doesn't really narrow goal

   Original wording stands

   Suresh - "addresses" ambiguous, suggest "supports"; propose
   "heterogeneous" environments rather than "distributed"; can't secure
   everything in w/s environment

   No one opposed to current language

   "Addresses" is superset of "supports"

   no one feels necessary overlap w/ #11

   goal stands

   DAG0007 Suresh Damodaran [12]

   Statement refs. To arch, not w/s

   Split into three parts: reliable, stable, predictable

   not much feedback

   roger - don't understand goal, need to see CSFs

   csfs are at
   [70]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-arch/2002Mar/0148.html

   sandeep - behavior should persist over time?

   Need to noodle more

   DAG0008 Tim Jones [13]

   DAG0009 Mark Baker [14]

   DAG0010 Dave Orchard [15] (regrets)

   DAG0011 Mike Mahan [16]

   DAG0013 Hugo Haas [17]

   DAG0014 Doug Bunting [18]

   DAG0015 Dave Orchard [19] (regrets)

   DAG0016 Yin-Ling Husband [20]


   DAG0001 and DAG0012 don't seem to have been kicked off so will

   be deferred.


   Chris - Missing goals - champions solicited


   Roger to propose goal 17 for transactions/reliable msging

   Hao - Management/monitoring (18)

   Joe - someone should champion privacy


  9. Wrap-up


   Resources:


   [1] http://www.w3.org/2002/ws/arch/admin#communication

   [2] http://www.w3.org/2002/ws/arch/2/03/07-minutes

   [3] http://www.w3.org/2002/ws/arch/2/03/07-minutes#new-ai

   [4] http://www.w3.org/2002/01/ws-arch-charter

   [5] http://www.daml.org/services/

   [6] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-arch/2002Mar/0170.html

   [7] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-arch/2002Mar/0169.html

   [8] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-arch/2002Mar/0133.html

   [9] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-arch/2002Mar/0197.html

   [10] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-arch/2002Mar/0236.html

   [11] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-arch/2002Mar/0233.html

   [12] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-arch/2002Mar/0237.html

   [13] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-arch/2002Mar/0185.html

   [14] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-arch/2002Mar/0242.html

   [15] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-arch/2002Mar/0179.html

   [16] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-arch/2002Mar/0246.html

   [17] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-arch/2002Mar/0208.html

   [18] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-arch/2002Mar/0227.html

   [19] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-arch/2002Mar/0172.html

   [20] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-arch/2002Mar/0235.html

Summary of new action items

     * 20020314 ACTION Hugo: Publish minutes of last week's
       teleconference.
     * 20020314 ACTION Chris to propose alternate wording for D-AG0005
     * 20020314 ACTION Editors: Rename D-AG0006 into AG-0006
     * 20020314 ACTION Roger: Kick off goal D-AG0017
     * 20020314 ACTION Hao: Kick off D-AG0018
     * 20020314 ACTION Joe: Start discussion about privacy goal.

   See also the list of [71]pending action items.
     _________________________________________________________________


    Chair: Chris Ferris <chris.ferris@sun.com>
    Scribe: Timothy N. Jones <tim@crossweave.com>

References

   1. http://www.w3.org/2002/ws/arch/
   2. http://www.w3.org/2002/ws/arch/#records
   3. mailto:mbrumbelow@apple.com
   4. mailto:adilber@att.com
   5. mailto:jones@research.att.com
   6. mailto:RogerCutler@ChevronTexaco.com
   7. mailto:sandkuma@cisco.com
   8. mailto:yin-leng.husband@compaq.com
   9. mailto:kevin.perkins@compaq.com
  10. mailto:tim@crossweave.com
  11. mailto:mario.jeckle@daimlerchrysler.com
  12. mailto:jhui@digisle.net
  13. mailto:mjemio@disa.org
  14. mailto:waqar.sadiq@eds.com
  15. mailto:shishir.garg@francetelecom.com
  16. mailto:zulah_eckert@hp.com
  17. mailto:kreger@us.ibm.com
  18. mailto:sharad.garg@intel.com
  19. mailto:joel.d.munter@intel.com
  20. mailto:vinoski@iona.com
  21. mailto:gdaniels@macromedia.com
  22. mailto:tomj@macromedia.com
  23. mailto:allenbr@microsoft.com
  24. mailto:henrikn@microsoft.com
  25. mailto:jdavenpo@mitre.org
  26. mailto:michael.mahan@nokia.com
  27. mailto:abbieb@nortelnetworks.com
  28. mailto:jeff.mischkinsky@oracle.com
  29. mailto:mbaker@planetfred.com
  30. mailto:adavies@seebeyond.com
  31. mailto:mike.champion@softwareag-usa.com
  32. mailto:suresh_damodaran@stercomm.com
  33. mailto:doug.bunting@sun.com
  34. mailto:chris.ferris@sun.com
  35. mailto:mark.hapner@sun.com
  36. mailto:himagiri@sybase.com
  37. mailto:atm@systinet.com
  38. mailto:gerald.edgar@boeing.com
  39. mailto:Hao.He@thomson.com.au
  40. mailto:carroll.t@ic.grainger.com
  41. mailto:hugo@w3.org
  42. mailto:prasad.yendluri@webMethods.com
  43. mailto:dorchard@bea.com
  44. mailto:ksankar@cisco.com
  45. mailto:don.robertson@documentum.com
  46. mailto:nilo.mitra@am1.ericsson.se
  47. mailto:dorothea_beringer@hp.com
  48. mailto:lojek@intalio.com
  49. mailto:ericn@iona.com
  50. mailto:sinisa.zimek@sap.com
  51. mailto:austin.d@ic.grainger.com
  52. mailto:Dipto.Chakravarty@artesia.com
  53. mailto:katia@cs.cmu.edu
  54. mailto:igor.sedukhin@ca.com
  55. mailto:dmh@contivo.com
  56. mailto:hans-peter.steiert@daimlerchrysler.com
  57. mailto:mike.ballantyne@eds.com
  58. mailto:knutson@us.ibm.com
  59. mailto:alex@ipedo.com
  60. mailto:spandran@ipedo.com
  61. mailto:pauld@mitre.org
  62. mailto:Nigel.Hutchison@softwareag.com
  63. mailto:Jens.Meinkoehn@t-systems.com
  64. mailto:michael@verisignlabs.com
  65. mailto:drolls@waveset.com
  66. mailto:tom@xqrl.com
  67. mailto:dana@xqrl.com
  68. http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-ws-arch/2002Mar/0046.html
  69. http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-ws-cg/2002Mar/0014.html
  70. http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-arch/2002Mar/0148.html
  71. http://www.w3.org/2002/ws/arch/2/03/14-minutes#curr-ai

-- 
Hugo Haas - W3C
mailto:hugo@w3.org - http://www.w3.org/People/Hugo/ - tel:+1-617-452-2092
Received on Thursday, 21 March 2002 16:51:47 GMT

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