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RE: D-AG004: Ensures platform independence

From: Joseph Hui <jhui@digisle.net>
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 12:02:52 -0800
Message-ID: <C153D39717E5F444B81E7B85018A460B081B2777@ex-sj-5.digisle.com>
To: "Abbie Barbir" <abbieb@nortelnetworks.com>, <michael.mahan@nokia.com>, <Austin.D@ic.grainger.com>
Cc: <www-ws-arch@w3.org>, "Christopher Ferris" <chris.ferris@sun.com>
Abbie,
 
No problem.
(BTW, I knew JAVA as just an example.
I just wanted us to steer away from any potential lanugage dependency,
and towards some universal message format.)
 
Cheers,
 
Joe
==========

	-----Original Message----- 
	From: Abbie Barbir [mailto:abbieb@nortelnetworks.com] 
	Sent: Tue 3/19/2002 11:46 AM 
	To: Joseph Hui; michael.mahan@nokia.com; Austin.D@ic.grainger.com 
	Cc: www-ws-arch@w3.org; Christopher Ferris 
	Subject: RE: D-AG004: Ensures platform independence
	
	

	joe, 

	thanks, i agree, 
	i have tried to state that by saying well defined interface. IMHO this provides the flexibility of using messaging systems such as SOAP. (I emphasize the word such as ...)

	abbie 


	> -----Original Message----- 
	> From: Joseph Hui [mailto:jhui@digisle.net] 
	> Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2002 2:34 PM 
	> To: Barbir, Abbie [CAR:1A00:EXCH]; michael.mahan@nokia.com; 
	> Austin.D@ic.grainger.com 
	> Cc: www-ws-arch@w3.org; Christopher Ferris 
	> Subject: RE: D-AG004: Ensures platform independence 
	> 
	> 
	> Hi Abbie, 
	>  
	> I think platform independence can be better ensured without 
	> introducing a dependence on JAVA.  At the lower level, endpoints 
	> are communicate over socket connections, and socket semantics 
	> are widely supported in many languages: C/C++/C#, JAVA, ... 
	> IMHO a better approach to platform independence is through better 
	> messaging, such as adopting a ubiquetous message format, say SOAP. 
	>  
	> Joe Hui 
	> Exodus, a Cable & Wireless service 
	> ============================= 
	> ----Original Message----- 
	> From: Abbie Barbir [mailto:abbieb@nortelnetworks.com] 
	> Sent: Tue 3/19/2002 7:48 AM 
	> To: michael.mahan@nokia.com; Austin.D@ic.grainger.com 
	> Cc: www-ws-arch@w3.org; Christopher Ferris 
	> Subject: RE: D-AG004: Ensures platform independence 
	> 
	> 
	> 
	>       Mike and all, 
	>        
	>       Per the last teleconference call D-AG004 is still open 
	> and must be closed by the next call. 
	>       In this e-mail I attempt to close the issues regarding 
	> the design Goal. 
	>       The goal as stated 
	>       " 
	>       D-AG0004 
	>       ensures platform independence of web services 
	> components in a way that does not preclude any programming 
	> model nor assume any particular mode of communication between 
	> the individual components 
	> 
	>       " 
	> 
	>       In my original e-mail I have riased some issues 
	> regarding the goal, but unfortunatly I did not get good track. 
	>        
	>       So here are my $.002, 
	>        
	>       Discussion: 
	>       ------------------ 
	>        
	>       In order to ensure platform independence, we need the following: 
	>       1. Adopt the use of platform independent languages such 
	> as JAVA. 
	>       2. Have very well defined interfaces to web components 
	> that are general and could be invoked using appropriate protocols. 
	>       3. Try to use XML and other markup techniques that 
	> ensures the ability to invoke web components using variaty of 
	> protocols. 
	>        
	>        
	>       The design goal can coexist with D-AG0003: is 
	> sufficiently extensible and  with D-AG0005:provides 
	> simplicity and ease-of-use that does not impose high barriers 
	> to entry for users of web services. In my opnion, the 
	> appropriate designs for platform independence interfaces can 
	> help the above two stated golas. 
	>        
	>        
	>       Furtheremore, Some issues were raised regarding the 
	> interdependecne of D-AG004 and D-AG011. Here D-AG011 is restated: 
	>        
	>       CURRENT GOAL STATEMENT: 
	>       Web Services are consistent with the existing web and 
	> its heterogenous environment and distributed architecture to 
	> the greatest extent possible. 
	>        
	>       Discussion -2: 
	>       ------------------- 
	>        
	>       I really do think that the requirement of platform 
	> independence does contradict the above design goal. In my 
	> view designing for platform independence must be consistant 
	> with D-AG011. So in this regard, D-AG011 can feed into D-AG004. 
	>        
	>       Crtitical Success Factors: 
	>       ---------------------------------- 
	>        
	>       The design goal can be achieved through the insistance 
	> on using platform independent development tools and languages 
	> such as XML and JAVA. The interfaces to web components must 
	> also be properly designed. 
	>        
	>       Derived Requirements: 
	>       -------------------------------- 
	>       1. Consistent definition of web components 
	>       2. Good definition of web components Interfaces. 
	>       3. Use XML based protocols for invoking the web components. 
	>        
	>        
	>       Current Recommendation: 
	>       -------------------------------------- 
	>       The goal should stay as written 
	>        
	>        
	>       cheers 
	>       abbie 
	>        
	>        
	>       
	>       
	> 
	>               -----Original Message----- 
	>               From: michael.mahan@nokia.com 
	> [mailto:michael.mahan@nokia.com] 
	>               Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2002 10:48 AM 
	>               To: Austin.D@ic.grainger.com; Barbir, Abbie 
	> [CAR:1A00:EXCH] 
	>               Cc: www-ws-arch@w3.org 
	>               Subject: RE: D-AG004: Ensures platform independence 
	>               
	>               
	>               Hi Abbie, 
	>                
	>               In message [1], I questioned whether platform 
	> independence goal is separate from D-AG0011. Can you comment on that. 
	>                
	>               Thx, Mike 
	>                
	>                
	>               [1] 
	> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-arch/2002Mar/0181.h 
	> tml 
	> <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-arch/2002Mar/0181.html> 
	> 
	>                       -----Original Message----- 
	>                       From: ext Austin, Daniel 
	> [mailto:Austin.D@ic.grainger.com] 
	>                       Sent: March 12, 2002 05:41 PM 
	>                       To: 'Abbie Barbir' 
	>                       Cc: 'www-ws-arch@w3.org' 
	>                       Subject: RE: D-AG004: Ensures platform 
	> independence 
	>                       
	>                       
	>                       Hi Abbie, 
	>                        
	>                           The text of this goal was quoted 
	> directly from the group charter, so we have to be careful 
	> about amending it. But I think these are good questions. What 
	> are the answers? 
	>                        
	>                       Regards, 
	>                        
	>                       D- 
	> 
	>                               -----Original Message----- 
	>                               From: Abbie Barbir 
	> [mailto:abbieb@nortelnetworks.com] 
	>                               Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2002 1:19 PM 
	>                               To: www-ws-arch@w3.org 
	>                               Cc: Abbie Barbir 
	>                               Subject: D-AG004: Ensures 
	> platform independence 
	>                               
	>                               
	> 
	> 
	>                               This message kicks off 
	> discussion on goal 4, "ensures platform independence of web services" 
	> 
	>                               Please comment on goal wording, 
	> success factors, relation to other goals, etc. 
	> 
	>                               The goal as stated 
	>                               " 
	>                               D-AG0004 
	>                               ensures platform independence 
	> of web services components in a way that does not preclude 
	> any programming model nor assume any particular mode of 
	> communication between the individual components 
	> 
	>                               " 
	> 
	>                               Discussion: 
	>                               -------------- 
	>                               I think that the goal as stated 
	> provides a nobel idea that software designers would like to 
	> comply with. However, it seems to me that 
	> 
	>                               1. A proper definition of the 
	> term components must be provided, where the line would be 
	> drawn on where and how the platform idependence could be achieved. 
	> 
	>                               2. In addition, does plateform 
	> independence means the independence from the actual operating 
	> system and/or programming language. 
	> 
	>                               3. In order to be able not to 
	> preclude any programming model, what kind of interface do we 
	> assume for web services components? 
	> 
	>                               4. In order not to assume any 
	> mode of communications between the individual components, how 
	> would data be exchanged (if need be ?) 
	> 
	>                               
	>                               Other issues: 
	>                               ------------- 
	> 
	>                               5. Is this redundant with 
	> D-AG0003: is sufficiently extensible to allow for future 
	> evolution of technology and of business goals 
	> 
	>                                when combined with 
	> D-AG0005:provides simplicity and ease-of-use that does not 
	> impose high barriers to entry for users of web services 
	> 
	>                               Critical success factors 
	>                               ------------------------ 
	> 
	>                               How platform independence could 
	> be measured, verified and achieved? and who will verify that? 
	> 
	>                               cheers 
	>                               abbie 
	> 
	> 
Received on Tuesday, 19 March 2002 15:03:23 GMT

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