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RE: D-AG004: Ensures platform independence

From: Austin, Daniel <Austin.D@ic.grainger.com>
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 13:43:07 -0600
Message-ID: <E0995D588DC3D211BB8D00805FFE353907358BB5@ic.ic.grainger.com>
To: "'Joseph Hui'" <jhui@digisle.net>, "Abbie Barbir" <abbieb@nortelnetworks.com>, michael.mahan@nokia.com
cc: www-ws-arch@w3.org, "Christopher Ferris" <chris.ferris@sun.com>
Greetings,

	Java is a proprietary product of Sum Microsystems and has nothing to
do with Web Services architecture. The architecture must be specified in a
way completely free of dependence on *any* implementation method.

	An architecture should be defined in terms of components and the
relationships between them; components are defined in terms of interfaces,
which describe the components inputs and outputs and the form and
constraints on those inputs and outputs. The relationships between
components are described in terms of messages and the protocols by means of
which these messages are transmitted among the interfaces of the components
that make up the architecture. None of this relies on any specific
technology or vendor. This is fundamental to the entire enterprise in which
we are engaged.

Regards,

D-

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Joseph Hui [mailto:jhui@digisle.net]
> Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2002 1:34 PM
> To: Abbie Barbir; michael.mahan@nokia.com; Austin.D@ic.grainger.com
> Cc: www-ws-arch@w3.org; Christopher Ferris
> Subject: RE: D-AG004: Ensures platform independence
> 
> 
> Hi Abbie,
>  
> I think platform independence can be better ensured without
> introducing a dependence on JAVA.  At the lower level, endpoints
> are communicate over socket connections, and socket semantics
> are widely supported in many languages: C/C++/C#, JAVA, ...
> IMHO a better approach to platform independence is through better
> messaging, such as adopting a ubiquetous message format, say SOAP.
>  
> Joe Hui
> Exodus, a Cable & Wireless service
> =============================
> ----Original Message----- 
> From: Abbie Barbir [mailto:abbieb@nortelnetworks.com] 
> Sent: Tue 3/19/2002 7:48 AM 
> To: michael.mahan@nokia.com; Austin.D@ic.grainger.com 
> Cc: www-ws-arch@w3.org; Christopher Ferris 
> Subject: RE: D-AG004: Ensures platform independence
> 
> 
> 
> 	Mike and all,
> 	 
> 	Per the last teleconference call D-AG004 is still open 
> and must be closed by the next call.
> 	In this e-mail I attempt to close the issues regarding 
> the design Goal.
> 	The goal as stated 
> 	" 
> 	D-AG0004 
> 	ensures platform independence of web services 
> components in a way that does not preclude any programming 
> model nor assume any particular mode of communication between 
> the individual components 
> 
> 	"
> 
> 	In my original e-mail I have riased some issues 
> regarding the goal, but unfortunatly I did not get good track.
> 	 
> 	So here are my $.002,
> 	 
> 	Discussion:
> 	------------------
> 	 
> 	In order to ensure platform independence, we need the following:
> 	1. Adopt the use of platform independent languages such 
> as JAVA. 
> 	2. Have very well defined interfaces to web components 
> that are general and could be invoked using appropriate protocols.
> 	3. Try to use XML and other markup techniques that 
> ensures the ability to invoke web components using variaty of 
> protocols.
> 	 
> 	 
> 	The design goal can coexist with D-AG0003: is 
> sufficiently extensible and  with D-AG0005:provides 
> simplicity and ease-of-use that does not impose high barriers 
> to entry for users of web services. In my opnion, the 
> appropriate designs for platform independence interfaces can 
> help the above two stated golas.
> 	 
> 	 
> 	Furtheremore, Some issues were raised regarding the 
> interdependecne of D-AG004 and D-AG011. Here D-AG011 is restated:
> 	 
> 	CURRENT GOAL STATEMENT: 
> 	Web Services are consistent with the existing web and 
> its heterogenous environment and distributed architecture to 
> the greatest extent possible.
> 	 
> 	Discussion -2:
> 	-------------------
> 	 
> 	I really do think that the requirement of platform 
> independence does contradict the above design goal. In my 
> view designing for platform independence must be consistant 
> with D-AG011. So in this regard, D-AG011 can feed into D-AG004.
> 	 
> 	Crtitical Success Factors:
> 	----------------------------------
> 	 
> 	The design goal can be achieved through the insistance 
> on using platform independent development tools and languages 
> such as XML and JAVA. The interfaces to web components must 
> also be properly designed.
> 	 
> 	Derived Requirements:
> 	--------------------------------
> 	1. Consistent definition of web components
> 	2. Good definition of web components Interfaces.
> 	3. Use XML based protocols for invoking the web components.
> 	 
> 	 
> 	Current Recommendation:
> 	--------------------------------------
> 	The goal should stay as written
> 	 
> 	 
> 	cheers
> 	abbie
> 	 
> 	 
> 	
> 	
> 
> 		-----Original Message-----
> 		From: michael.mahan@nokia.com 
> [mailto:michael.mahan@nokia.com]
> 		Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2002 10:48 AM
> 		To: Austin.D@ic.grainger.com; Barbir, Abbie 
> [CAR:1A00:EXCH]
> 		Cc: www-ws-arch@w3.org
> 		Subject: RE: D-AG004: Ensures platform independence
> 		
> 		
> 		Hi Abbie,
> 		 
> 		In message [1], I questioned whether platform 
> independence goal is separate from D-AG0011. Can you comment on that.
> 		 
> 		Thx, Mike
> 		 
> 		 
> 		[1] 
> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-arch/2002Mar/0181.h
> tml 
> <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-arch/2002Mar/0181.html> 
> 
> 			-----Original Message-----
> 			From: ext Austin, Daniel 
> [mailto:Austin.D@ic.grainger.com]
> 			Sent: March 12, 2002 05:41 PM
> 			To: 'Abbie Barbir'
> 			Cc: 'www-ws-arch@w3.org'
> 			Subject: RE: D-AG004: Ensures platform 
> independence
> 			
> 			
> 			Hi Abbie,
> 			 
> 			    The text of this goal was quoted 
> directly from the group charter, so we have to be careful 
> about amending it. But I think these are good questions. What 
> are the answers?
> 			 
> 			Regards,
> 			 
> 			D-
> 
> 				-----Original Message-----
> 				From: Abbie Barbir 
> [mailto:abbieb@nortelnetworks.com]
> 				Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2002 1:19 PM
> 				To: www-ws-arch@w3.org
> 				Cc: Abbie Barbir
> 				Subject: D-AG004: Ensures 
> platform independence
> 				
> 				
> 
> 
> 				This message kicks off 
> discussion on goal 4, "ensures platform independence of web services" 
> 
> 				Please comment on goal wording, 
> success factors, relation to other goals, etc. 
> 
> 				The goal as stated 
> 				" 
> 				D-AG0004 
> 				ensures platform independence 
> of web services components in a way that does not preclude 
> any programming model nor assume any particular mode of 
> communication between the individual components 
> 
> 				" 
> 
> 				Discussion: 
> 				-------------- 
> 				I think that the goal as stated 
> provides a nobel idea that software designers would like to 
> comply with. However, it seems to me that 
> 
> 				1. A proper definition of the 
> term components must be provided, where the line would be 
> drawn on where and how the platform idependence could be achieved.
> 
> 				2. In addition, does plateform 
> independence means the independence from the actual operating 
> system and/or programming language. 
> 
> 				3. In order to be able not to 
> preclude any programming model, what kind of interface do we 
> assume for web services components?
> 
> 				4. In order not to assume any 
> mode of communications between the individual components, how 
> would data be exchanged (if need be ?)
> 
> 				
> 				Other issues: 
> 				------------- 
> 
> 				5. Is this redundant with 
> D-AG0003: is sufficiently extensible to allow for future 
> evolution of technology and of business goals 
> 
> 				 when combined with 
> D-AG0005:provides simplicity and ease-of-use that does not 
> impose high barriers to entry for users of web services 
> 
> 				Critical success factors 
> 				------------------------ 
> 
> 				How platform independence could 
> be measured, verified and achieved? and who will verify that? 
> 
> 				cheers 
> 				abbie 
> 
> 
Received on Tuesday, 19 March 2002 14:43:56 GMT

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