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revised minutes for telecon of 24 July 2003

From: <ewallace@cme.nist.gov>
Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2003 18:20:39 -0400 (EDT)
Message-Id: <200308062220.SAA01269@clue.msid.cme.nist.gov>
To: www-webont-wg@w3.org




MINUTES from  Teleconference Web Ontology Working Group
July 24, 2003, 1200 (East US), 0900 (West US). 1700 (London)

=====

Executive Summary:

DECISIONS:

RESOLVED: Have the CR request say that the syntactic restriction on
structure reuse is at risk. 
See 3.2 below for details.

RESOLVED: Request advancement of all OWL Working Drafts to Candidate
Recommendation (CR) status.  
See 4.0 below for exact proposal text and details of the vote.

ACTIONS:
Sandro to see that changes are completed in Overview addressing QA
issues (specifically: complete document roadmap).

NEW ACTIONS:

ACTION Ian to draft a response for Dave Reynolds on the issue of named
dataranges, discussing the danger of uncomfortable interactions between
datatypes and such dataranges.

ACTION Jeremy to produce 4 or 5 new test cases for structure sharing
checking (issue discussed in 3.2 below). 

ACTION Peter Patel-Schneider to look over Jeremy's B1 B2 proof
revision.

ACTION Jim Hendler to change CR request to indicate risk for
syntax constraint on structure sharing (see 3.2 below).

ACTION Jim Hendler to reply to Dave Reynolds saying we have added the
above to the "at risk list."

ACTION WD editors to prepare drafts for CR 
   Overview: Sandro
   Guide: Mike S.
   Reference: Mike D.
   S&AS: Peter
   Test: Jeremy/Jos
   Requirements: Sandro/Jeff
(see Document change review in 4.0 below for problems noted with editor 
drafts).

DONE! ACTION Jeremy Carroll to review Wine and Food ontologies from
Guide

ACTION? Jeremy Carroll to review recent language layering changes to S
and AS.  

=====

More detail:

IRC:
http://ilrt.org/discovery/chatlogs/webont/2003-07-24#T15-54-05

AGENDA:
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-webont-wg/2003Jul/0262.html


Chair:  Sandro Hawke (in place of Jim Hendler)
Scribe: Evan Wallace


1. Administrivia (10 min; chair/scribe)

Regrets:

 Frank van Harmelen, Deborah McGuinness, Dan Connolly, Guus Schreiber,
 Jerome Euzenat, Jim Hendler, Marwan Sabbouh, Pat Hayes, 
 Jonathon Borden, Jeff Heflin

Role Call 

  Bijan Parsia (UMd), Mike Smith, Sandro Hawke, Evan Wallace, 
  Peter Patel-Schneider, Herman ter Horst, Jeremy Carroll, Ian Horrocks,
  Mike Dean. Jim Hendler (briefly), Chris Welty, Charles White, 
  Jos De Roo, Pat Hayes

Approve Minutes of Jul 10:
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-webont-wg/2003Jul/0097.html
APPROVED by concensus

Provisional telecon schedule for summer:

Jul 31    NO telecon
Aug 7     telecon, chair Schreiber, scribe TBD
Aug 14    NO telecon
Aug 21    telecon, chair Hendler, scribe TBD

Agenda Ammendments

 none

2. ACTION ITEM REVIEW (10 min; Chair)

Last Call Comment Actions:  NONE!

Document Actions:
ACTION Sandro to see that changes to Overview are made to respond to QA
comments (complete document roadmap, etc.)
CONTINUED

Actions continued:
Done  ACTION jjc make sure test has owl:sameAs in Lite and no owl:sameIndividualAs
Done  ACTION jjc Add owl:Thing = owl:Nothing test
Done  ACTION JJC update test document  to reflect iff => if

DONE:  ACTION MikeS to add new compoundkey issue

DONE  ACTION MikeSmith change closing text  to reflect iff => if

DONE  ACTION PFPS editorial change  to reflect iff => if

3.0 Issues in need of discussion (<30 min total)

  3.1 Datatyping question from Dave Reynolds (5 min; Jeremy Carroll)
In the message
  http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webont-comments/2003Jul/0050.html
Dave Reynolds explains that I misunderstood what he was asking for in 
my reply to him - he makes a good case, which Jeremy expands on in 
his message
  http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-webont-wg/2003Jul/0252.html

The WG should decide whether to add this feature or not.  If the 
latter, someone should take an action to send a message summarizing 
the WG's response to him.

JJC: Can we name these?  If not why not?
PPS: I believe that this does overlap with the XML Schema datatype
issue.
JJC: This is for named dataranges.
PPS: It is a proposal to get around datatype issue using oneOf.
JJC: The lack of a name is to positively discourage use (to Ian)?
Ian: The use of a name brings up issues of determining if these are
identifying datatypes. 
JJC: The concern is then that this leads to a danger of uncomfortable
interactions between datatypes and dataranges.
New ACTION: Ian to draft a response for Dave Reynolds discussing this
interaction issue.


  3.2 bnode issues - B1 and B2 revisited (25 min; Jeremy Carroll)
The WG needs to resolve this once and for all.  A straw poll will be 
taken as to whether to
  a - reopen issue 5.26, accept Jeremy's solution to B1,B2, and close.
  b - Retain the status quo, keeping the issue closed over Jeremy's objection.

JJC: This was a part of a discussion on improving the syntax of
 OWL....
 I beleive that I have shown that this can work with the correspondance
 proof, which was the problem with it going into LastCall.

PPS: I was initially unconvinced, but have not had a chance to review
his latest version produced ~ a month ago.  I haven't had the cycles,
but it is on my desk.

Jos spoke in favor of the proposal.
     
Mike S: This is essentially about allowing structure sharing?
others: yes. Should be no change in semantics.
JJC: The reason for making the change is for convenience (in
implementation).
PPS: I don't see any reason why the proof shouldn't work, but it is
changing a significant assumption in the SandAS, so it is important to
review it carefully.

Stawpoll on option A:
  Reopen issue, Accept Jeremy's change to close.

no, abstain, yes, no, no, no, no, abstain, yes, no, yes, abstain
[may have not captured all the "no"s -Ed]

Option B:
  Have the CR request say that this restriction is at risk of changing.
 
Implementation discussion:
  Bijan reports not much structure sharing checking yet in UMd impl's.
  JJC reports that his impl does many, but not all, of these checks.

Straw: yes, abstain, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes
official vote:
 RESOLVED with no objections, Sandro abstaining

Actions:
  JJC: generate 4 or 5 test cases 
  PPS: look over Jeremy's B1 B2 proof revision
  JimH: change CR request to indicate risk
  JimH: reply to Dave Reynolds saying we have added this to the "at risk
       list."

>It should be noted that in the past the WG did express a willingness 
>to do A if Jeremy could fix the correspondence proof, which he has 
>now done.

>(A would remove Jeremy's objection to 5.26, but would require 
>actioning editorial change to the S&AS document.  B would require a 
>reworking of the CR request w/respect to the status of this issue).

[Jeremy was satisfied with this resolution and subsequently withdrew
HP's objection, see
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-webont-wg/2003Jul/0301.html.]


4.0 Proposal to Request Candidate Recommendation Status  (30 min; Sandro)
Proposal and rationale:
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-webont-wg/2003Jul/0210.html
Draft CE Director's request:
http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/WebOnt/rqim.html


Document change review:
  Overview: no editor present to discuss
   -Sandro to see that roadmap is made complete
   
  Guide: see appendix D in editors draft (Changelog since last call release)
   - JJC to review Wine and Food ontologies. This has already begun, see
   http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-webont-wg/2003Jul/0306.html
   - rdf link needs updating

  Reference: (appendix F is change log)
   - still need to make change regarding the absence of daml:item
   - dc:date out of date
   - Jos will look over owl.owl (not in critical path)

  S and AS (appendix C is the change log)
   - JJC wants to look at recent changes relating to layering (iff->if)

  Test (appendix G is change log.  Jeremy notes that the document
   asserts that changes will continue until PR status)

   - Jos found the number of tests not yet recommended too great, but 
     we could not fix this on the telecon.
   - XML literal with language tags still needs to be done.

  Requirements: editor not in attendance
   - old, misleading date on editor's draft noted.
      

Discussion:
  Dependencies on RDF Core.  Need a consistent story on this.  Editors
  will have to change links as RDF documents change.

A revised proposal was sent by Sandro (with agreement from Jim Hendler):
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-webont-wg/2003Jul/0291.html

Proposed:

	  To submit a request to the Director of the W3C that the six
	  Last Call Documents, as amended in accordance with group
	  decisions made at this and prior Working Group meetings, be
	  advanced to Candidate Recommendation status, with a minimal
	  CR duration of between four and six weeks, ending in
	  mid-September.


Straw: yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes

Formal voting record:

Member Organization	Representative		yes/no/abstain
-------------------	--------------		--------------
Agfa-Gevaert		Jos De Roo  		yes
Daimler Chrysler
DFKI 
DISA
EDS			Mike Smith		yes
Electricite de France
Fujitsu
FZI
Hewlett Packard		Jeremy Carroll		yes
IBM			Chris Welty		yes
Ibrow *			Guss Schreiber		yes
INRIA
INTAP - Japan
IVIS Group
Lucent			Peter Patel-Schneider	yes
MIT/W3C (team)		Sandro Hawke		yes
Mitre *******		Marwan Sabbouh		yes
Mondeca	******		Bernard Vatant		yes
Motorola
Network Inference	Ian Horrocks		yes
NIST			Evan Wallace		yes
Nokia ***		Ora Lassila		yes
Philips Electronic NV	Herman ter Horst	yes
Stanford
Sun Microsystems
Unicorn Solutions	Ziv Hellman*********	yes
Unisys
Univ of Md - MIND	Bijan Parsia		yes
Univ of Southhampton

			Invited Experts
			------------------
			Jonathon Borden **	yes
			Mike Dean		yes
			Pat Hayes		yes
			Jeff Heflin *****	yes
			Masahiro Hori ****	yes
			Lynn Stein ********	yes


Results:  
PASSED
 20 yes
  0 no
  0 abstain

Proxies declared or referenced in:
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-webont-wg/2003Jul/index.html
* - Guus proxy - Yes to CR, see msg 259
** - Borden proxy - yes to CR, msg 247
*** - Lassila proxy - yes to CR, msg 0278
**** - Masahiro Hori proxy - yes to CR, msg 0284
***** - Jeff Heflin proxy - yes to CR, msg 0285
****** - Bernard Vatant proxy - yes to CR, msg 0286
******* - Marwan Sabbouh proxy - yes to CR, msg 
******** - Lynn Stein proxy - yes to CR, see msg 0297
********* - Ziv Helman proxy - yes to CR

- end voting record - 

>Upon passage (ed: knock wood) actions to editors and team contact to 
>prepare editors' drafts for publication as CR documents and to 
>publish these.


5.0 Raucous Celebration or Much Waling and Gnashing of Teeth (2 min, WG)
    (dependent on outcome of 4.0)

 Apparently postponed till members could reach an appropriate venue
 for celebration.  After all, what might the web press make of such
 behavior? ;)

6.0 A.O.B

 none

ADJOURN 
 on time!
Received on Wednesday, 6 August 2003 18:20:40 GMT

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